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http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_world_350860_10/07/2007_85484

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Turkey puts 140,000 troops on border, US urges restraint

BAGHDAD/WASHINGTON (Combined reports) � The Turkish army has 140,000 soldiers along its border with northern Iraq as part of a �great mobilization,� Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshiyar Zebari said yesterday. Turkey�s armed forces have urged its government to allow an incursion into neighboring, mainly Kurdish, northern Iraq to crush up to 4,000 Turkish Kurdish militants who use the region as a base to attack security and civilian targets inside Turkey.

Rumors of a possible Turkish incursion have rattled financial markets and drawn warnings from the United States, Ankara�s NATO ally, to stay out of Iraq.

Turkey has been coveting the oil wells in Kirkuk for a long time. The Kurds, have been dying to have their own nation for a long time, so what did they do. They decided to tempt Turkey into going into Iraq, by killing some of it's soldiers. That way they will be facing American troops. Problem is, Turkey has more troops on it's border than we have in Iraq, not to mention that Turkey also has political problems within it's borders, tempting it to go to war in order to cover them up.

Of course we financially support the Turkish army, so we'll be fighting what we ourselves supplied. Fun huh! grin Nothing like Turkey to give Bush a headache. sick

A little history here. The Ottoman Empire sided with Germany during WW I. It lost the war, and lost all it's territories to the English, which in turn drew their lines in the sand, dividing the Arab world into rich and poor states. The Kurds though were never given a country. One of the reasons was because Lawrence of Arabia loved the Arabs, and wanted them to have the oil. I believe the Kurdish population is anywhere from forty to sixty million. A population worthy of having it's own country. The greatest percentage of them live in Turkey. A smaller percentage live in Iraq, Iran and Syria.

Now to understand the problem more fully, the Turks had to establish a nation for themselves after WW I. They held on to what they could, and in order to do so had to ethnically clean, (massacre), the indiginous population. That meant the Armenians, Greeks, Arabs, etc.

If Israel today is Turkey's friend, it is because the enemy of my enemy is my friend. They have combined lobbies in Washington. The most powerful in the world. The Syrians, and Arabs in general hate the Turks. Actually, everyone hates the Turks, except America. but then again, every nation hates it's neighbors so it really means nothing. confused

I guess that's enough history for today. I wonder what's going to happen? cry

God Bless,

Zenovia


Last edited by Zenovia; 07/10/07 11:19 PM.
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Turkey is playing with fire, unless they are waiting for Hillary to win in 2008. But they have enough politics of their own to worry about than to be strategically concerned with ours.

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Actually it's much more of a case of the US playing with fire. A Turkish military strike against the Kurds in Northern Iraq would be applauded by Iran, Syria and probably many people in Iraq as well. The Kurdish issue is about a hundred times more important to the Turks than Iraq is to the US.

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"The Kurdish issue is about a hundred times more important to the Turks than Iraq is to the US. "

Exactly, but how is the US playing with fire? The Turks may bite, but the US has the capability to assure that the Turks bite only once.

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The US is already involved in two unpopular wars, do you honestly believe President Bush want's to get involved in a third ? There's alot more to international politics than who could take who in a fight. If the Turks do go in and play the "We're going after terrorists" card, what can the US government say ?

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So what, now Turkey's going to do the dirty work for the Western Establishment. Now they can say the US troops might withdraw in 2008 while the Turkish masonic army will stay there indefinately.

After all it will be less expensive to give technical and logistical support to troops of another country than to display soldiers directly. That's the same tactic used by the Bush administration in Somalia, through the Ethiopian government.

There's an enormous injustice being done against the Kurdish nation and its people (with a Roman Catholic minority), opressed without right to self-determination and freedom.

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There's an enormous injustice being done against the Kurdish nation and its people (with a Roman Catholic minority), opressed without right to self-determination and freedom.

Dear Mexican,

There I agree with you. Although the Kurdish people cannot be said to be the most civilized people in that part of the world, what was done to them was an injustice. They have a population as high as, (let's say), Italy. Yet they do not have a country...thanks to the British.

While it is always mentioned in our papers that thirty or forty thousand people have been killed in the conflict between the Kurds and Turkey, it is never mentioned that only about 5,000 of them were Turks. The rest were all Kurds. Basically it was genocide. Now the Europeans know that quite well, but we don't.

What seems to have happened is that the Jewish lobby, which is the strongest in Washington, is united with the Turkish one. They have a lot of sway here. The highest nation we donate to, is Israel, next Egypt, and then Turkey. Yet when we wanted to go into Iraq, we could not enter through Turkey. Turkey surely plays her cards well. I think she inherited the Byzantine diplomacy. I think it would have been a lot better if Turkey would spend that money on helping the poor in the Western part of the country, but I guess that's not to it's expansionist interest.

Now if Turkey goes into Iraq, it will never leave Kirkuk, in the same way that it never left Cyprus. Turkey is an opportunist nation. Maybe it wants to strengthen it's hand in entering the EU. In other words, 'I will leave Iraq, if I am given a free ride into the EU, without the necessary concessions such as human rights, etc.'

In the meantime during the stand off, they will persecute the Kurds, until they all leave out of fear, and then ola! They own Kirkuk and the black gold. shocked

God Bless,

Zenovia

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Why should the Kurds get "first dibs" in nation-building? The Assyrian nation is still awaiting the promised support by the US, from time immemorable. I say help the Christians first, before they get massacred some more - even by the US supported Kurdish state.

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Why should the Kurds get "first dibs" in nation-building? The Assyrian nation is still awaiting the promised support by the US, from time immemorable. I say help the Christians first, before they get massacred some more - even by the US supported Kurdish state.

Dear Michael,

Actually the first dibs were given to Kosovo. We entered a civil war, supported the Muslim Albanian terrorists there, and are agreeing for it to unite with Albania... with the potential to become a powerful Muslim nation in Europe. A state that now grows poppies for heroin and terrorists to plague the world.

No doubt in time it will also unite with Macedonia with it's large Muslim population, and Bosnia, and then when the Muslims in Thrace in Greece start their propaganda, it will breakaway, with no doubt our support, in order to unite Turkey with the rest of her old empire. Turkey spends a lot on propaganda. REmember the Kosovans being shown from morning until night on CBN before we went to war? Why aren't the destroyed churches and monasteries being shown, as well as all the Serbian refugees that have fled because of Albanian and Kosovan terrorists. That you won't hear about.

No one is supporting a Kurdish state. It is part of Iraq, and the oil belongs to Iraq, and the part that the Kurds live in as well. Do you want the oil to belong to a Turkish state, that in the past fifteen years has massacred over thirty thousand people. Do you really want this nation, that has ethnically cleansed and exterminated about one third of it's population, (the Christians), to start expanding itself? If Turkey didn't throw millions into her public relations in this country, don't you think you would have known about that genocide?

Oh yes, when Saddam gassed the Kurds, you heard about it, but what about the 30 to 40 thousand massacred by the Turks. We didn't hear about that now, did we? Well, The Europeans did. FRankly, I think Turkey should be kicked out of NATO. What do we need them for, to fight Russia, a Christian nation? Or to fight for Israel?

Ha! It will take the money we give it, just as it promised Alexandretta to Syria, but when the time comes, there will be no help. Turkey is Turkey. There is no honor.

We tend to forget, that when the Turkish Muslim Albanians were terrorizing the Serbs in Kosovo, and the Serbs were being forced to leave, (not to mention having all their monasteries and churches destroyed), we didn't hear about that either. Oh but when Serbia retaliated, then there we were, Clinton, Allbright and all.

We supported one side in a civil war. Well if that was right, then why not do the same for the Kurds, or the Chechyians, (that we'll probably do since Russia is a Christian country and they are Muslims). Better yet, if we believe so much for the freedom of the Kosovans, then why not the same for the Mexicans, when they decide to take California and Texas with them. Not that I'm so fond about the Kurds, but the hypocrisy is unbelievable. Isn't any wonder Russia refused to go along with Kosovo's freedom. She know quite well, she will be the next one with Chechnya, and the other Muslim entities.

As for the Christians in that part of the world, how do you know that it's not the Turks behind it? They pay a lot for their propaganda in order to seem like the good guys. They were the one's behind us fighting for the terrorist Albanians against the Serbs in Kosovo. They were also the one's behind the massacres against the Armenians in the beginning of the last century.

At least the Kurds apologized for the part they had played. When will Turkey apologize, or at least admit what it did. Instead it starts freaking out and boycotting any nation that mentions genocide.

As for Turkey taking over Iraq, then surely there will be a massacre in order for everyone to leave. Turks will be brought in to repopulate the place, and that will be that. She did it in Cyprus. Do we really want the oil to be in the hands of the Turks? Chavez and Azerbinijan, (or whatever his name is) will be nothing in comparison to Turkey controlling those oil wells.

God Bless,

Zenovia


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Give the oil to the Assyrians, bypass both the Turks and the Kurds and cut a deal with the Turks to leave the Assyrian state alone if it serves as a buffer between Turks and Kurds.

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Perhaps God is turning the enemies of the cross against one another. Rabidly anti-Christian Turkey vs the Kurds, who are also anti-Christian http://www.aina.org/releases/20050117124917.htm , Al-Qaeda in Iraq threatening to attack Iran http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D1B901E0-A9E5-4D3A-937B-7B5262BBE82C.htm, Sunni loonies and Shi'ite wackos blowing each other up in Iraq, and an anti-Christian military regime in Pakistan now being challenged by even more hardline Islamic militants.

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The second link didn't work, so here's the actual text.

The leader of an al-Qaeda umbrella group in Iraq, who was thought to have beeen killed by US forces, has threatened to wage war against Iran unless it stops supporting Shias in Iraq within two months.

Abu Omar al-Baghdadi, head of the Islamic State in Iraq, said his Sunni fighters have been preparing to wage a battle against Shia-dominated Iran.


Al-Baghdadi made the announcement in an audiotape that was posted on a web site commonly used by armed groups.

The 50-minute audiotape, which was released on Sunday, could not be independently verified.

US forces had earlier claimed to have killed al-Baghdadi.

Major General William Caldwell, the commander of the multinational force in Iraq, told a press conference in Baghdad that US forces had killed Muharib Abdulatif al-Juburi on May 1.

Brigadier General Abdel Karim Khalaf, operations director at the Iraqi interior minister, told state television that al-Juburi was also known as Abu Omar al-Baghdadi.

Audiotape

"We are giving the Persians, and especially the rulers of Iran, a two-month period to end all kinds of support for the Iraqi Shia government and to stop direct and indirect intervention ... otherwise a severe war is waiting for you," al-Baghdadi said.

Iraq's Shia-led government is backed by the US but closely allied to Iran.

The United States accuses Iran of arming and financing Shia militias in Iraq, charges Tehran denies.

In the recording, al-Baghdadi also gave Sunnis and Arab countries doing business in Iran or with Iranians a two-month deadline to cease their ties.

"We advise and warn every Sunni businessman inside Iran or in Arab countries especially in the Gulf not to take partnership with any Shia Iranian businessman, this is part of the two-month period," he said.

Al-Baghdadi said his group was responsible for two suicide truck bomb attacks in May in Iraq's northern Kurdish region. He said the attacks in Irbil and Makhmur showed the "Islamic jihad" was progressing in the Kurdish areas.




































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I'm sure that our military planners are many steps ahead of talk such as this. I don't know enough of the situation to comment.

All I can say is that if we're forced to to carry out a war in defense of our allies and our interests or to withdraw or do nothing, I would not put my money in a bet on inaction.

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Give the oil to the Assyrians, bypass both the Turks and the Kurds and cut a deal with the Turks to leave the Assyrian state alone if it serves as a buffer between Turks and Kurds.

Dear Michael,

That would be a wonderful idea if one was speaking with logical people. The Muslims though are not logical. Land and expansion means more to them than the lives of their families. If that were to happen, the Christians would be in constant warfare as are the Israelis today. And even more so because of the oil wells in Kirkuk. It is the oil and gas in the Aegean that has had Turkish jets flying over and threatening the Greek islands for the past 25 years, and claiming sea rights that it is not entitled to.

Today there are still Palestinians living in refugee camps. That was over fifty years ago. To them, once a Muslim has lived on a piece of land, that land must either remain Muslim or become Muslim. They are discouraged from leaving a land no matter how much they are suffering, (it is called their fate), and no Muslim country will take them in.

When the Palestinians went into the other Arab states, they were not allowed to get settled. In other words, return to the land you belong to.

So if you have a Christian state, it will end up like Lebanon. Lebanon thirty years ago was predominantly Christian, but today it is predominantly Muslim. I don't doubt though, that the Turks are arousing the Kurds against the Christians in order to use it for propaganda. That are great propagandists, with a powerful lobby.

They used that lobby for Kosovo, and we accomodated them against a Christian state. Taking sides in a civil war, something unheard of. That's what Russia is afraid of. Russia knows that if she supports Kosovo becoming it's own nation and eventually uniting with Albania, then the next nation that we will support will be Chechnya. What we did and are doing, is kind of like Russia supporting the Mexicans in Texas and California if and when they desire to have those states become part of Mexico.

You know, we always get what we deserve. We ended up with one of the bloodiest wars in history, because of slavery, so let's see if our policies towards Serbia will end up back firing on us with Texas and California.

I hope not!

God Bless,

Zenovia

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Dear Lawrence,

It seems that whole part of the world is going to blow up, and maybe the best thing for the Christians to do is leave. I didn't realize that Al Qaida was Sunni, so there was reason for our President believing that Bin Ladin would go to Iraq.

The Arabs hate the Iranians...or so I heard from my grandson, that had a wealthy Saudi friend in college. If the Iranians go into Iraq, Saudi Arabia will go to war to expell them. They will massacre them. Hatreds run deep in the Islamic world. That's another one of Bush's headaches. The bombing of the straits, and oil prices jumping to who knows what, and causing a recession.

I can't help but wonder if the threats against any Arab doing business with Iran, will affect Dubaii, which has become a haven in that part of the world. Also Abu Daibu, which I believe is gradually becoming westernized and a democracy.

Add to it Mr. Opportunist, Turkey, who not only gets our money, but refused to allow us to use our bases there during the invasion because it had nothing to gain, and boy Bush's headache must be quite big. Especially knowing that the powerful combined Jewish/Turkish lobby is supporting the Turks.

Then we have Pakistan that might fall to Islamic extremists, wanting to grab Indian Kashmir, if who knows what other part of India. They both having nuclear arms to boot, which really wouldn't matter if it wasn't that the Muslims couldn't care less about human life and suffering...Oh, what a mess! cry frown cry

I think the world is about ready for some major change in it's all over make-up. Sort of like when the Roman Empire fell. I only hope the change doesn't include a nuclear fall out.

God Bless,

Zenovia


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