Well for starters the church, but I suppose that if they are using a Roman Rite parish as you say then that can't be helped. (However, I have seen a few Maronite parishes in a similar stylle.)
1.) Women in the sanctuary. 2.)an introductory greeting, after the entrance. 3.) A nun reading the Epistle. 4.) The Epistle & Gospel being read rather than chanted. 5.) The celebrant and deacon frequently sitting at a sedilia. 6.) A Nicene Creed that is 'said' (rather than sung). 7.) Many prayers being 'said'. 7.) People from the congregation bringing up "the gifts" at the Offertory. 8.) Mass facing the people. 9.) Exchanging "the pax" (sign of peace) in the congregation with a handshake. 10.) "Prayers of the Faithful" done by members of the congregation.
Now, I know that the traditional Maronite Liturgy is highly Latinized, but what I mentioned above (to the best of my knowledge) are not part of either the traditional Syriac or the Roman liturgy. (The exception being point #5, and that is only in done in the Roman Rite when the musical "Mass setting" for the ordinary is lengthy.)
For those not familiar with the traditional Roman Rite, see:
With the exception of the Eucharistic canon, music, and the priest's vestments, this could pass for a Novus Ordo Roman Rite Mass.
For comparison, here is a Novus Ordo Roman Rite Mass in the same church as the Maronite Mass:
Here are clips from a more traditional Novus Ordo Roman Rite Mass, also for comparison:
No one should be using this forum to attack the Divine Liturgy, that is, calling it crazy. If the Maronite liturgy does not meet your standards, you should find some other means than publicly "flogging it."
Any one knoe why the Maronites Novus Ordo-ized their liturgy so much? I know it was already heavily Latinized in the past, but this is crazy!
Byzantophile,
The main rule of The Byzantine Forum is the rule of charity. You've only been a member a short time and you are already crossing this line. Please withdraw your description of the Maronite Liturgy as "crazy" and, in the future, make sure every post is written in charity.
I was, I admit, most unhappy with the tone of the original post - but felt I should not respond at that point - I would have had great difficulty in posting in a charitable way.
Even though the poster uses terms that are not polite, I believe that in this post no one has attempted to criticize the Divine Liturgy, but some bad aspects of its celebration in this Mass in particular.
Being critical and exposing this may have a possitive result, by working as a wake up call for Christians who belong to these Churches about what must be avoided in the future, and about the need to restore Holy tradition in theology and in the way the liturgy is celebrated, in both Eastern and Western Rites, but more so in Eastern Rites.
Otherwise people would start leaving this Communion of Churches and join others who respect the Tradition better, or this would be a turn off for many probable converts from both the Latin and Orthodox Churches.
I think Christians should always be watching and denounce when possible, and politely these attacks on the Liturgy.
I find the tone of the original post disrespectful. If the individual had done any research at all about the Maronites and their Liturgy, perhaps he would not have found it necessary to be so harshly critical. There is a great deal of information on the Maronites on the internet, so there really is no excuse for this.
And, by the way, they don't exchange the sign of peace with a "handshake".
I find the tone of the original post disrespectful. If the individual had done any research at all about the Maronites and their Liturgy, perhaps he would not have found it necessary to be so harshly critical. There is a great deal of information on the Maronites on the internet, so there really is no excuse for this.
And, by the way, they don't exchange the sign of peace with a "handshake".
Thank you for posting your defense and thanks to the Admin, et al for stepping in. I have spent some time with the Maronites in the past, and found their liturgy and people to be very uplifting and beautiful. Like Anhelyna, I had started to post a reply, but found everything that I posted to be uncharitable!
Wow! Apparently, hyperbole is a dying literary device...
I apologize if I have offended anyone, but what I find so odd about the response is that in the Roman Rite we are often very critical of our liturgy, and most wouldn't bat an eyelash in our rite if I said such things. I suppose this is our reaction to the awful abuses found in many Novus Ordo parishes perpetuated in the name of "Vatican II". So, this then begs the question(s): Do Eastern Catholics NOT critique their own liturgy? And if so, how is a standard maintained? Are Eastern Catholics more tolerant of changes to their liturgy?
I once wrote the following in a post on my blog, "Philadelphia Roamin' Catholic" (perhaps this will give you an idea of where I am coming from):
It has often been said that the Tridentine Mass is a jewel that must be preserved for posterity. I would add that, as a jewel, it must be frequently polished so that it sparkles and shines for all to see. Liturgical minuti� like that mentioned above [my post was on liturgics], while not of the utmost importance, are important to discuss so as to help preserve our beautiful liturgical traditions and to have the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass celebrated in the best possible manner, all for the greater glory of God. We do NOT want to be of the attitude, so common to-day, that "nothing's too cheap for God." We should give Him our best because He deserves nothing less. Deo Optimo Maximo.
"Trifles make for sanctity, and sanctity itself is no trifle." --St. Teresa of Jesus (of �vila), Doctor of the Church
Also, I apologize for the bit about the handshake. One can clerly see the priest offer the sign of peace to the deacon in one way and then to the servers in another (though not a handshake). However, if you forward to time index 26:08 it does appear as if the servers are taking the sign of peace to the congregation with a "handshake". This may not be the case, but it certainly looks it.
As for doing some esearch, I have yet to find on-line or library texts of the Maronite Divine Liturgy from before the litugical reforms after the Second Vatican Council. (Plus, I can barely read Arabic.) I do have a few photos in my files which I have put up on imageshack for your perusal:
Growing up in Los Angeles, where there are many Arab Christians, my family had a few Maronite friends. Though I was too young to understand specifics, I remember that some of them were equally disturbed by many of the liturgical changes in their rite as we were with the ever-increasing changes in ours...
Sometimes I cannot participate in the complaints of my Roman Catholic friends when their posturing hints that they doubt the validity of the consecration with a mass they detest.
The Byzantine Forum provides
message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though
discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are
those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the
Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the
www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial,
have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as
a source for official information for any Church. All posts become
property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2024 (Forum 1998-2023). All rights
reserved.
