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OCA Typica for December 24th/January 5th (Nativity Eve) #265645
11/30/07 04:11 PM
11/30/07 04:11 PM
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Pittsburgh, PA
Ung-Certez Offline OP
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I would like to know what services are held on Christmas Eve for the churches of the OCA jurisdiction. What is the morning and evening schedule of services as prescribed by their Typica?

Ungcsertezs

Last edited by Ung-Certez; 11/30/07 04:18 PM.
Re: OCA Typica for December 24th/January 5th (Nativity Eve) [Re: Ung-Certez] #265696
11/30/07 09:30 PM
11/30/07 09:30 PM
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Is there an OCA Typica I can reference on line?

Ungcsertezs

Re: OCA Typica for December 24th/January 5th (Nativity Eve) [Re: Ung-Certez] #265697
11/30/07 09:52 PM
11/30/07 09:52 PM
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I don't have a copy of the OCA typikon for the year, but most OCA parishes will celebrate a vigil of Great Compline and Matins (sometimes with abbreviations) on Christmas Eve. The time for this vigil varies from parish to parish.

Dave

Re: OCA Typica for December 24th/January 5th (Nativity Eve) [Re: Chtec] #265699
11/30/07 10:04 PM
11/30/07 10:04 PM
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I wanted to know what OCA parishes will be doing on the Vigil of Christmas. The Sui Juris Byzantine Metropolitan Church lists
Vespers and St. Basil liturgy for Christmas Eve. Other jurisdictions list Great Compline for Christmas Eve.

Ungcsertezs

Re: OCA Typica for December 24th/January 5th (Nativity Eve) [Re: Ung-Certez] #265743
12/01/07 11:22 AM
12/01/07 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Ung-Certez
I wanted to know what OCA parishes will be doing on the Vigil of Christmas. The Sui Juris Byzantine Metropolitan Church lists
Vespers and St. Basil liturgy for Christmas Eve. Other jurisdictions list Great Compline for Christmas Eve.

Ungcsertezs


Vespers and St. Basil Liturgy???..I hope some BC Parishes are still doing Great Compline...I know that's what we did growing up...Compline followed by DL

I am not OCA but I should get our Schedule for Christmas (January 7th) tomorrow...I'll be happy to let you know what we are doing in our ACROD parish...I can't remember what we did last year...I was pretty sick...that's all I remember...

Chris

Re: OCA Typica for December 24th/January 5th (Nativity Eve) [Re: Ung-Certez] #265747
12/01/07 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Ung-Certez
The Sui Juris Byzantine Metropolitan Church lists
Vespers and St. Basil liturgy for Christmas Eve. Other jurisdictions list Great Compline for Christmas Eve.


Dear Ungcsertezs,

Actually, the Typikon for the Pittsburgh Metropolia lists the following:

- Matins and Royal Hours for the Vigil-day of the Nativity

- Vespers with the Divine Liturgy of Saint Basil the Great

- Great Compline with Litija, followed immediately by Matins of the Nativity

- Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom

Of course most parishes will not celebrate all of these services, and when Compline is celebrated, Monsignor Levkulic's "short version" is typically used (the Cantor Institute has published a full version with music). And since many of our parishioners have been accustomed for years to a "Christmas Eve Liturgy" or "Midnight Mass", one or more of the earlier services are often omitted. But its not fair to imply that the Metropolia as a whole ignores them.

Yours in Christ,
Jeff Mierzejewski

P.S. My wife's parish (OCA) is celebrating Matins at 8 PM on the evening of December 24, and the Divine Liturgy at 9:30 on the morning of the 25th.


Re: OCA Typica for December 24th/January 5th (Nativity Eve) [Re: Ung-Certez] #265756
12/01/07 01:08 PM
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The OCA Typikon calls for Royal Hours on Monday morning (at about 8:00 am). Then Vespers and Divine Liturgy of St. Basil the Great on Monday (the Typik notes that Vespers should begin about 1:00 pm - however, most parishes celebrate it earlier).
The All-Night Vigil on Monday evening consists of Great Compline and Matins (Vespers was already served with the Divine Liturgy of St. Basil the Great).
On Tuesday the Hours are prescribed and the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.

Re: OCA Typica for December 24th/January 5th (Nativity Eve) [Re: ByzKat] #265760
12/01/07 01:46 PM
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Jeff,

That's not what the Metropolia Byzantine Wall Calendar says. For December 24th:

Vigil of Christmas, strict abstinence from meat and dairy products. Royal Hours are celebrated in the morning, and in the evening,THE VIGIL DIVINE LITURGY OF ST. BASIL.

No mentioning of Great Compline service for the evening of Dec. 24th.

Also, there probably are no more "Midnight" liturgies celebrated in parishes these days. Most parishes have their services begin around 8 or 9 PM.

Ungcsertezs

Re: OCA Typica for December 24th/January 5th (Nativity Eve) [Re: Ung-Certez] #265763
12/01/07 01:59 PM
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*shrug* I would hesitate to consider a wall calendar as a eposcopal directive! It's a reminder, nothing more, nothing less. I would be quite happy to see all our parishes celebrating the Royal Hours, and Vespers/Divine Liturgy of the vigil - as well as Compline late in the evening, and the Nativity Liturgy in the morning.

This does mean there may be some tension between Vespers and Compline - for example, encouraging the faithful to fast through the day, go to Vespers, THEN have Holy Supper, and return for Compline or Compline/Matins. And the wall calendar you cite provides no support at all for celebrating the NATIVITY Divine Liturgy on the eve of the feast, as too many parishes seem to do.

I would wager that the whole point of the directive in the calendar is to have the VIGIL Divine Liturgy push aside an early celebration of the NATIVITY Liturgy - making room for the proper order of services. Unfortunately, a restoration of the traditional order of service probably has to take place this way, in steps; if the Vigil were ordered to be celebrated early in the afternoon, we would probably continue to see the Nativity Divine Liturgy (without Vespers) at 8 or 9 PM - and which do you think will be better attended?

Jeff

Last edited by ByzKat; 12/01/07 02:06 PM.
Re: OCA Typica for December 24th/January 5th (Nativity Eve) [Re: ByzKat] #265764
12/01/07 02:05 PM
12/01/07 02:05 PM
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Jeff,

OK, in a perfect setting it would be Royal Hours in morning, Vespers and St. Basil Liturgy in the afternoon, and Great Compline with Litija in the evening, then Matins and St. John Chrysostom Liturgy anytime after midnight?

Knowing that no parish will do this entire schedule, has the Metropolia then "suggested" Vespers with St. Basil Liturgy be held on Christmas Eve because it is more important?

Ungcsertezs

Re: OCA Typica for December 24th/January 5th (Nativity Eve) [Re: Ung-Certez] #265765
12/01/07 02:10 PM
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Dear Ungcertezs,

Thanks for continuing the conversation on a good plane!

As I suggested above, I think that having a VIGIL Divine Liturgy on the eve not only works against the temptation to move the NATIVITY Liturgy back to the previous evening (the tendency to follow the Latin tradition of having a midnight, early morning and mid-morning Eucharist); it also provides the faithful with more of the theology of the feast (in the Vespers texts).

It is certainly, in my humble opinion, better than the "mini Compline" that most parishes have been celebrating for years. That's why I asked in another thread which BCC parishes are celebrating Compline, and whether they are taking full or abbrevated service.

Yours,
Jeff

P.S. This is one occasion where the Ruthenian tradition HAS tended to stress Matins as part of the nighttime service, immediately after Compline - as mentioned in Father David's Typikon - rather than a separate celebration of Matins in the morning. Myself, I would be happy to attend either way, but we do tend to celebrate great feasts with SHORT services on the feast itself, and keeping Matins as part of the All-night Vigil makes sense that way, too.

Re: OCA Typica for December 24th/January 5th (Nativity Eve) [Re: ByzKat] #265767
12/01/07 02:21 PM
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Jeff,

The reality is that most Pittsburgh parishes will usaully have
the singing of carols, immediately followed by Christmas vigil Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.

Ungcsertezs

Re: OCA Typica for December 24th/January 5th (Nativity Eve) [Re: Chtec] #265864
12/02/07 11:00 AM
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Dave,

Is there an on line site that might have a PDF file of the OCA Typica?

Ungcsertezs

Re: OCA Typica for December 24th/January 5th (Nativity Eve) [Re: Ung-Certez] #266230
12/03/07 10:16 PM
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U-C,

I could not locate the OCA typicon online although Bishop Tikhon in an instruction on not serving Vesperal Liturgyies outside of Christmas, Theophany, Pascha states the time the Typicon directs they should occur Chrsitams: 1pm, Theophany: 11am, and Pascha 4pm.

The Antiochian Priest's Guide directs that Evening Vesperal Liturgy is to be served for all of the 12 Great Feasts that do not fall on a Sunday or Monday except for the Nativity for which it states: An Evening Divine Liturgy may be celebrated earlier on the evening of 12/24, or the full Orthos and Divine Liturgy may be celebrated if scheduled late in the night of 12/24

I am unsure where you are going with this but I assume you are trying to show that the Metropolia is trying to suppress Great Compline by proposing that the Vesperal Liturgy of St. Basil actually take place in the evening when Vespers is usually served rather than at 1pm as directed by the Typicon. I don't think this is true because I would bet that most parishes don't serve the abbreviated Levkulic Great Compline anymore and just have Divine Liturgy without Vespers.

Fr. Deacon Lance


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Re: OCA Typica for December 24th/January 5th (Nativity Eve) [Re: Fr. Deacon Lance] #266242
12/03/07 11:01 PM
12/03/07 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
U-C,

I could not locate the OCA typicon online although Bishop Tikhon in an instruction on not serving Vesperal Liturgyies outside of Christmas, Theophany, Pascha states the time the Typicon directs they should occur Chrsitams: 1pm, Theophany: 11am, and Pascha 4pm.

The Antiochian Priest's Guide directs that Evening Vesperal Liturgy is to be served for all of the 12 Great Feasts that do not fall on a Sunday or Monday except for the Nativity for which it states: An Evening Divine Liturgy may be celebrated earlier on the evening of 12/24, or the full Orthos and Divine Liturgy may be celebrated if scheduled late in the night of 12/24

I am unsure where you are going with this but I assume you are trying to show that the Metropolia is trying to suppress Great Compline by proposing that the Vesperal Liturgy of St. Basil actually take place in the evening when Vespers is usually served rather than at 1pm as directed by the Typicon. I don't think this is true because I would bet that most parishes don't serve the abbreviated Levkulic Great Compline anymore and just have Divine Liturgy without Vespers.

Fr. Deacon Lance


Fr. Deacon,

I wanted to see what the concensus is in Orthodox jurisdictions.
Do the Orthodox serve (Dec. 24th) Royals Hours in the morning, Great Vespers followed by St. Basil Liturgy in the late afternoon, Great Compline in the evening, Matins and St John Chrysostom Divine Liturgy (Dec. 25th) Christmas morning?

Does the Sui Juris Byzantine Metropolitan Church think this is too much, and suggest Vesperal St. Basil Liturgy on the evening of Dec. 24th as a compromise?

Ungcsertezs

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