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St. John's Monastery Forced to Close by Israeli Fanatics #266343
12/04/07 06:57 PM
12/04/07 06:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 476
Philadelphia, PA
Byzantophile Offline OP
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Byzantophile  Offline OP
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Posts: 476
Philadelphia, PA

Re: St. John's Monastery Forced to Close by Israeli Fanatics [Re: Byzantophile] #266390
12/04/07 11:08 PM
12/04/07 11:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 709
DC area
Penthaetria Offline
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How sad. Ein Kerem is one of the most beautiful places I have ever been ... a truly holy and blessed place.

Re: St. John's Monastery Forced to Close by Israeli Fanatics [Re: Penthaetria] #266505
12/05/07 05:30 AM
12/05/07 05:30 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 476
Philadelphia, PA
Byzantophile Offline OP
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And we have a certain element among the pueri hebræorum to thank for it. I know that there are Israelis who fight against this stuff, but it often seems that this unsavory vocal minority gets all the attention... and sympathy from American Evangelicals.

Re: St. John's Monastery Forced to Close by Israeli Fanatics [Re: Byzantophile] #266514
12/05/07 09:02 AM
12/05/07 09:02 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,528
Ohio, USA
harmon3110 Offline
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Lord have mercy !

-- John

Re: St. John's Monastery Forced to Close by Israeli Fanatics [Re: harmon3110] #266529
12/05/07 12:44 PM
12/05/07 12:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 179
Minneapolis, Minn. USA
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robster Offline
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People don't usually seem to recognize that when militant Judaism is placed in Israel, it can be as fanatical and dangerous as almost anything that Islam spawns.

Regards,
Robster

Re: St. John's Monastery Forced to Close by Israeli Fanatics [Re: robster] #266625
12/05/07 09:11 PM
12/05/07 09:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 90
Connecticut
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Krotoski Offline
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Posts: 90
Connecticut
Robster,
Not that I support these militant Jews at all, but I don't remember any of them blowing themselves up in the middle of markets to kill large numbers of innocent people.....all the time.
Reading the article did anger me as the people obviously have no respect whatsoever for the holiness of this site. It reminds me of the attitude many have here in the U.S. towards the sacred.

Re: St. John's Monastery Forced to Close by Israeli Fanatics [Re: Krotoski] #266725
12/06/07 04:18 AM
12/06/07 04:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 476
Philadelphia, PA
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Philadelphia, PA
No bombings, but I can give you some unsavory instances:

Human rights worker has bottle smashed in face (scroll down to read more and pay attention to what the activists were chanting at her):
http://www.palsolidarity.org/main/2006/11/18/hebron-day-06/

Racist graffiti:
http://www.cpt.org/gallery/album03

Jews spitting on Christians:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1329380,00.html

I've got a whole lot more where that came from if anyone is interested.

Re: St. John's Monastery Forced to Close by Israeli Fanatics [Re: Byzantophile] #266913
12/07/07 12:22 AM
12/07/07 12:22 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 309
Lebanon
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SamB Offline
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Even sadder about the story of this thread is that this is the very same monastery from which the repugnant Franciscans over five years back through the muscle of Israeli authority evicted the Melchite monks who were taking care of this place. It was they, the Eastern monks, who gave the property the proper care and maintenance it required and who restored it, turning it into the lovely place it eventually became.

According to one story at the time, the stormtrooping Franciscans with typical irreverence were seeking to turn the monastery into a treatment centre for drug addicts. But it is no surprise that only this area's rotten NewChurch ambassadors would act in this demented manner...:

Some of those Israeli visitors also came to the 'Ain al-Habis spring – which serves as a baptismal pool – to exploit it as a mikveh. In the spirit of ecumenicalism, Father Sergio permitted the parallel usage.

...and finally allow things to lead up to the monastery being defaced in such a way.

Laa ya`teekun il`aafyeh ya tyuus.

Re: St. John's Monastery Forced to Close by Israeli Fanatics [Re: SamB] #266947
12/07/07 02:39 AM
12/07/07 02:39 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,214
Houston, TX USA
Terry Bohannon Offline
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"But it is no surprise that only this area's rotten NewChurch ambassadors would act in this demented manner...:"

Are rotten and demented the best words to use? I don't wish to offend you or any Melchite who is offended by what happened five years ago, but it seems harsh to suggest that these monks deserved the disrespect they received.

Last edited by Terry Bohannon; 12/07/07 02:42 AM.
Re: St. John's Monastery Forced to Close by Israeli Fanatics [Re: Terry Bohannon] #267120
12/07/07 05:28 PM
12/07/07 05:28 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 58
northeast USA
anamchristi Offline
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northeast USA

Re: St. John's Monastery Forced to Close by Israeli Fanatics [Re: anamchristi] #267200
12/07/07 09:31 PM
12/07/07 09:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 309
Lebanon
S
SamB Offline
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Mr. Bohannon, I afford myself a moment to vent on occasions like this. But I am making no such point. It is more stupid than harsh to say they or anyone can deserve treatment such as that inflicted by these aggressive settlers.

But permitting what they did with the spring was foolish behaviour that reflects upon the spirit of conduct that characterises the Franciscans as a custodial authority, though you are right that it is better to direct bad sentiment away from these monks—and rather towards the Custody—who also with respect to what came to pass years ago, are not likely the same characters who were involved in that incident.

Nonetheless, and even though the extent of the damage is not known to anybody here, it is frustrating to see what the Melchite monks laboured to create meet this sorry fate, under the watch of a religious body that saw fit to throw them out yet welcome to the sacred pool the ritualistic practices of a religion inimical to the Christian faith in the name of modernist ballyhoo.

Excuse me then for being bitter.

Last edited by SamB; 12/07/07 09:43 PM.
Re: St. John's Monastery Forced to Close by Israeli Fanatics [Re: SamB] #267202
12/07/07 09:50 PM
12/07/07 09:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 287
Orange County CA.
christos_anesti Offline
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As a Jewish Christian I find myself appalled at the actions of my family who have not yet come to know Christ. This is one of the most disturbing things I have ever heard. That our people seventy years ago were being treated like dogs by Hitler and now some of us have turned around and began treating others in the same way is a slap in the face of the six million who died in the Shoah and the numerous others who have been persecuted and killed in history for our Judaism. How dare they make so cheap what was bought so dearly, that being the freedom to live in the land of our forefathers. They are not true Jews, they are hypocrites armed with a faith they do not understand, with a seething mass of prejudice buried deep in their hearts. When in the Torah does it say to treat your neighbor like a base animal when they've done nothing to you? Where in the Talmud, or Midrash does it say this? I am incensed by this. God forgive my brethren for perpetrating such injustice on those who I have come to be brothers and sisters with in Christ through my conversion.

Re: St. John's Monastery Forced to Close by Israeli Fanatics [Re: christos_anesti] #267208
12/07/07 10:08 PM
12/07/07 10:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 476
Philadelphia, PA
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Don't certain versions of the Talmud have some unsavory passages about goyim, especially Christians?

Re: St. John's Monastery Forced to Close by Israeli Fanatics [Re: Byzantophile] #267551
12/09/07 11:14 PM
12/09/07 11:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 287
Orange County CA.
christos_anesti Offline
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I am not a Talmudic scholar, but I know that that Talmud has some out and out negative passages about the goyim and the like, but it does not, to my knowledge, advocate violence or persecution of these groups. In short the Talmud does not teach violence like the Islamic Koran.

Re: St. John's Monastery Forced to Close by Israeli Fanatics [Re: christos_anesti] #267576
12/10/07 12:40 AM
12/10/07 12:40 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 476
Philadelphia, PA
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What would you recommend as a good edition of the Talmud? Or an introduction to Talmudic Judaism?

I am thinking of going back to school in Middle Eastern Studies and, while I know a lot about the history of the region, I have not yet made it to the other religions.


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