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Re: Monastery icons what to do? #67675
09/28/06 05:07 AM
09/28/06 05:07 AM
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Massachusetts
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Irish Melkite Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Benedictine:
I wonder if these products are still being produced by "heretical" religious. Nowhere in the current catalog from Monastery Icons is there mention of the "Gnostic Orthodox" monastics that used to make these icons as a means of support.

Instead the catalog (and this is confirmed on Monastery Icons web site - see: http://www.monasteryicons.com/info/index.hzml ) states that the rights to the images were recently acquired by some group called the Sacred Arts Foundation, which is headquartered in Missouri. Also, the catalog outlet is listed as being in West Chester, OH. Is the "monastic" group that started this now defunct? Does anyone know the story?
Brother Elias,

2005 Annual Report - Sacred Arts Foundation State of Missouri - Secretary of State's Office filing shows that the principal place of business is 1482 Rango Way, Borrego Springs, CA. The Foundation has only a registered agent in MO, which is a great place to incorporate, as the fees are dirt-cheap.

The officers include William Burke - the former Abbott of the infamous Gnostic Orthodox Monastery.

1482 Rango Way, Borrego Springs, CA, btw, is the locale of Atma Jyoti Ashram , "a spiritual institution devoted to the practice and teaching of Sanatana Dharma, the Eternal Religion, as found in the Upanishads, the Bhagavad Gita, and the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali." This is Abbott Burke's latest religious venture.

It would appear that one corporate entity, as it was being phased out, sold its assets to the new corporate venture - essentially mirrors of one another in regard to governance, differing chiefly in ecclesiology.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
Re: Monastery icons what to do? #67676
09/28/06 05:54 AM
09/28/06 05:54 AM
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Posts: 5,264
somewhere betwixt the Alpha an...
ebed melech Offline
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somewhere betwixt the Alpha an...
Neil,

Thanks for posting that. It is amazing that you found all that!

I had no idea that they were somehow tied to Hinduism. This should be made known to others somehow. I always thought the fact that they made icons of Western saints was such a positive bridge between East and West. Now I see it as a money making machine to support the worship of all sorts of idols...how ironic and pathetic!

Gordo

Re: Monastery icons what to do? #67677
09/28/06 10:37 AM
09/28/06 10:37 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 193
Conception Abbey, MO
Benedictine Offline
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Thanks for the info Neil!

Seems like these guys have returned to their roots, so to speak.

Gone the Christian monastic habits, back to the saffron robes...

From their website, I also see they are quite syncretist. Touting such spurious writings as the so-called Gospel of Thomas , et al. :rolleyes:

Their site presents an image a far cry from the catalog, which is throughly mainstream Christian in content - with especially appeal to Catholics. Somewhat deceptive, don't ya think! wink (since our monastery also sells icons, Christian greeting cards, etc. we regularly get the mailings of others in the feild).

PAX

Br. Elias

Re: Monastery icons what to do? #67678
09/28/06 11:08 AM
09/28/06 11:08 AM
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Georgia U.S.
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JSMelkiteOrthodoxy Offline OP
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I feel uncomfortable burning them, yet I also don't want to keep them. Perhaps the best thing to do would be to dig a very deep hole in the backyard and bury them there?

Joe

Re: Monastery icons what to do? #67679
09/28/06 09:48 PM
09/28/06 09:48 PM
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New York
Father Anthony Offline

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Dear Joe,

Actually burning them is the canonical and proper way of disposing icons. The ashes are then to scattered in a place that will not be tread upon. Generally, I tell people at the base of a bush or something like that.

Because of the lamination or coating the icon has been given, by burying it will not ensure that it decomposes. I hope this helps.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+


Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
Re: Monastery icons what to do? #67680
09/29/06 07:08 PM
09/29/06 07:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 95
NYS
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They market their images heavily to Roman Catholics (they make lots of images of Roman Catholic saints for example), many of whom don't know iconography and don't know better.

GUILTY! I am an RC who doesn't know any better - please tell my why an icon cannot depict God The Father. Thank you, and please excuse my ignorance; my question is sincere. - Gv eek

Re: Monastery icons what to do? #67681
09/29/06 07:14 PM
09/29/06 07:14 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 187
USA
Cathy Offline
Orthodoxy or Death
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Quote
please tell my why an icon cannot depict God The Father.
Dear Grapevine....

For the explanation, defer to our Orthodox Brethren at....

Orthodox Photos


Orthodoxy or Death
Re: Monastery icons what to do? #67682
09/30/06 12:13 PM
09/30/06 12:13 PM
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Posts: 101
USA
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I wish certain people in my church would read this thread toooooo.

Re: Monastery icons what to do? #67683
09/30/06 01:12 PM
09/30/06 01:12 PM
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Private
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The young fogey Offline
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Strictly speaking icons can't depict God the Father but in practice they do - lots of Orthodox churches have images of the Trinity with him as an old man with a beard. Haven't heard of any bishops ordering their removal.

It seems that the monastery is a quasi- or pseudo-Hindu ashram now but still making money from the RC market for religious goods through a separate corporation that's really the same people.

One thing the Internet is good for is getting the word out on stories like this so the faithful don't spend their money there, let alone on something heretical or even evil.

And those images are sub-standard as has often been noted.

Re: Monastery icons what to do? [Re: The young fogey] #267468
12/09/07 06:05 AM
12/09/07 06:05 AM
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Just an update, as it has been brought to my attention that the link to the Annual Report of Sacred Arts Foundation at the Missouri Secretary of State's Office is no longer functional.

It appears that the Secretary of State's Office has made some changes to its on-line files. The full set of SAF's filings can now be viewed here. A quick review of the 2007 filing confirms that the situation is unchanged from what was described earlier,

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
Re: Monastery icons what to do? [Re: Father Anthony] #267493
12/09/07 11:57 AM
12/09/07 11:57 AM
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Posts: 10,896
USA
Alice Offline
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Originally Posted by Father Anthony
Dear Joe,

I would strongly suggest first that you have them blessed. Even though they have been produced by a heretical group, the sanctification with Holy Water and the prayers of blessing should exorcise any demonic influences. Now, if you chose to give them to someone else or whatever, at least you will not have to worry about these influences following them. I strongly suggest that no matter what you simply do not throw away any icon, but rather if you inclined to dispose of them, do so in the proper manner with consultation of a priest.

I hope this helps.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+


I refer everyone back to this post and its excellent advice before they panic. Father Anthony speaks as an Orthodox priest and this would be the Church's advice.

Alice, Moderator

Re: Monastery icons what to do? [Re: ebed melech] #267526
12/09/07 04:30 PM
12/09/07 04:30 PM
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Posts: 1,131
Eparchy of Van Nuys
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Originally Posted by ebed melech
Neil,

Thanks for posting that. It is amazing that you found all that!

I had no idea that they were somehow tied to Hinduism. This should be made known to others somehow. I always thought the fact that they made icons of Western saints was such a positive bridge between East and West. Now I see it as a money making machine to support the worship of all sorts of idols...how ironic and pathetic!

Gordo


Gordo they used to have far more Orthodox saints as subjects... And the Orthodox wised up. Nowadays their business mostly fills the vacuum for Catholic subjects, I suspect. Many Catholics, largely unaware of the nature of the group producing these articles (and frequently not totally familiar with the significance of the icons and canons surrounding them) still buy them. It was expedient to produce subject RCs would buy. Saint Pio, Saint Francis, Saint John Vianney, Stations of the Cross, Rosary Mysteries, etc...

As to the image of the Trinity... That one seems to be up in the air slightly, as even ROCOR (certainly not a group of lacadaisacal slouches unbothered by canons by any means!!) has an icon of the Holy Trinity similar to the one linked to at Jordanville. So too several GOA parishes I have been to.

Sad to say my parish still has a few... As we can, we are phasing them out. I am of the opinion that if and when possible, it is always better to have canonical icons that are originals over reproductions... Being able to afford that though it sometimes tricky.

The beauty of Monastery icons was that they had such a complete selection with so many subjects where a parish could have uniform styles & sizes at prices smaller parishes could afford. If an enterprising iconographer were able to produce quality icons of Latin & Eastern subjects in uniform sizes the way MI did, I know many would be interested. Heck, it would be really nice to be able to purchase an icon of Bl. Theodore Romzha for my home.

At this time, I am unaware of any places where I could get an inexpensive reproduction. When I have an extra $250 I may commission one from an iconographer in OH. Convincing the Serbian iconographer in Serbia I have been in contact with (whose prices are very reasonable - 60) to take a commission from a Catholic for an icon of the Theotokos has been difficult enough! I promise you he won't entertain any thoughts about creating an icon of Bl. Theodore!

Time for the Sunday nap.

-Simple

Re: Monastery icons what to do? [Re: A Simple Sinner] #267527
12/09/07 04:45 PM
12/09/07 04:45 PM
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West Coast
Stephanos I Offline
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First of all the Icons in themselves are very tastelss!
If indeed you can taste Icons. smirk
I would suggest that you get rid of them.
Stephanos I
(But then again Im know to be a hardliner)

Last edited by Stephanos I; 12/09/07 04:46 PM.
Re: Monastery icons what to do? [Re: Stephanos I] #267528
12/09/07 04:50 PM
12/09/07 04:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,502
West Coast
Stephanos I Offline
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I have a beautiful Original Icon of the BVM.
I know it is Russian and I think it is from the 16th or 17th Century. over the Mother of God is a depiction of God the Father.
Need to have someone look at it and tell me where it is from and the name of the icon.
Stephanos I

Re: Monastery icons what to do? [Re: Stephanos I] #267535
12/09/07 05:26 PM
12/09/07 05:26 PM
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Posts: 5,564
Dublin
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Fr Serge Keleher Offline
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GET RID OF THEM! The people who run Monastery Icons are not Christians, nor are the pictures they sell. If you want more information, try Father Gregory Tillet in Sydney, Australia.

Father Serge

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