The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
Melkite Catholic, Alexander T., Raphael1999, Adrián Badida, fr nick
5641 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
2 registered members (AllCatholic, 1 invisible), 175 guests, and 247 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Byzantine Nebraska
Church of the Holy Trinity (UGCC) - Brazil
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
Upgraded Russian icon corner
Russian Greek Catholic Global Congress
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics34,839
Posts412,477
Members5,641
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Children baptised to get into Catholic schools #273132 01/14/08 09:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,930
Pani Rose Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,930
A friend that posts on here, once said, he thinks all the craziness in the world started when people quit Baptising their children. So I find this an interesting story. It just goes to show what happens when you are no longer thinking of just
yourself. Also, God will get your attentiong one way or the other. Anyway, I often think there is a lot of wisdom to my friends statement...

Children baptised to get into Catholic schools

By Jonathan Petre, Religion Correspondent
Last Updated: 2:47am GMT 13/01/2008

Roman Catholic baptism figures are being significantly swelled by lapsed Catholics keen for their children to gain places at popular faith schools, new research suggested yesterday....

Between 1958 and 2005, the proportion of "cradle" baptisms declined from 85 per cent to 64 per cent, while "late" baptisms rocketed from five per cent to 30 per cent. The proportion of adult conversions also fell....

In 2005, the Catholic Church in England and Wales baptised 20,141 children aged between one and 13, compared with just 6,925 in 1958.

Researchers said that late baptisms were often sought by parents who suddenly realised that their children would need baptism certificates to enrol in oversubscribed Catholic state primary schools.

Anthony Spencer, of the Pastoral Research Centre Trust, which compiled the figures, said the rise in such baptisms had been fuelled by the improving academic reputation of Catholic state schools.

Oona Stannard, the director of the Catholic Education Service, admitted that educational considerations were a factor, though there were others, such as improved child mortality rates. "There may well be some who, as the baby grows up, give more careful consideration to the question of education and decide that they do want their child to be baptised and have the best possible opportunity to attend a Catholic school," she said.

"That the child is brought into the Church and the family's bond with the Church strengthened can only but be a good thing, irrespective of whether the child does eventually have the benefit of attending a Catholic school."

But Terry Sanderson, the president of the National Secular Society, said that this trend was one of the reasons that many people opposed faith schools.

"Religious schools are increasingly encouraging parents to be actively engaged in faith, even if they don't want to be," he said.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/01/12/nedu312.xml

Re: Children baptised to get into Catholic schools [Re: Pani Rose] #273134 01/14/08 10:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 704
R
rcguest Offline
Bill from Pgh
Member
Offline
Bill from Pgh
Member
R
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 704
"That the child is brought into the Church and the family's bond with the Church strengthened can only but be a good thing, irrespective of whether the child does eventually have the benefit of attending a Catholic school."

Amen!

Due to economic and other factors my children did not attend Catholic schools. I myself attended Catholic school until the tenth grade and switched to a public school in eleventh grade, also for economic reasons. I must say that the family's bond with the church must begin and end at home, attending Catholic school definitely helps but does not come with any guarantees.

"Religious schools are increasingly encouraging parents to be actively engaged in faith, even if they don't want to be," he said.

Much to the chagrin of some parents.

I don't mean to be negative here, but I know and have known enough kids who attend Catholic schools whose parents don't want to be bothered taking them to church. For those parents whose eyes are opened I praise God.

Bill

Re: Children baptised to get into Catholic schools [Re: rcguest] #273173 01/15/08 04:02 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,930
Pani Rose Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,930
Bill,

I know what you mean. That was a huge problem for my husband, his parents would never take him to Mass. I guess his being PNC and in an RC school may have had something to do with it. But, the priest made his life miserable because of it. The result...my husband was out of the Church for many years. Thankfully, God corrected it, now he looks back on those years and sees that they were good. After all, he is a deacon now biggrin

Re: Children baptised to get into Catholic schools [Re: Pani Rose] #273283 01/15/08 05:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,133
Memo Rodriguez Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,133
Hello,

At St. Jude, there is no requirement for a child to be baptized for enrolling in the school.

Of course, there is a tuition discount available to registered and active parishioners, but now that I think about it, I guess you could still be all that without being baptized.

If we truly believe in the grace of the sacraments, we should let them stand by their own. They should not be the reward for completing any kind of program, nor the requirement for any other "benefit".

Shalom,
Memo

Re: Children baptised to get into Catholic schools [Re: Memo Rodriguez] #273292 01/15/08 07:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564
F
Fr Serge Keleher Offline
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564
Even crazier is the phenomenon of parents who cannot be bothered having their offspring baptized, but will nevertheless demand (not ask, demand) that the unbaptized child (who can be even ten years old) be given a Catholic funeral. Go figure.

Fr. Serge

Re: Children baptised to get into Catholic schools [Re: Fr Serge Keleher] #273306 01/15/08 08:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 78
J
JGC Offline
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 78
The competitive frenzy in some parts of England to get your child into the best school (by getting your child baptised C of E or RC, or buying a tiny flat / house yards from a 'good' school to get in {most non-denominational english schools use closest to the door criteria if oversubscribed) hasn't hit here yet but many Catholic schools here in Scotland are recieving high levels of 'placing requests' from non-catholic parents.

Why? They are percieved to have better ethos, higher wearing of school uniform, sometimes punch above their weight exam result wise (contentious!). Also sectarianism is in decline, these parents don't care about Catholic v Protestant, they just want a good school for their children. Many Muslim parents send their children as they can buy into much of the ethos, if not the faith. Interesting picture here

http://www.sces.uk.com/pages/Schools-in-Focus.html

Scroll down to Taylor High School, they have a Muslim House Captain.

In terms of having to have a baptism certificate, Catholic schools here would look for a this when a child starts primary school, however in terms of admission, this would only become an issue should the school become oversubscribed, then baptised catholics would be admitted first.

My school has over 25% non-catholic pupils now.

Last edited by JGC; 01/15/08 08:21 PM.
Re: Children baptised to get into Catholic schools [Re: JGC] #273334 01/15/08 10:51 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 704
R
rcguest Offline
Bill from Pgh
Member
Offline
Bill from Pgh
Member
R
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 704
"The result...my husband was out of the Church for many years. Thankfully, God corrected it, now he looks back on those years and sees that they were good. After all, he is a deacon now."

Amen, Pani Rose!

And I'm sure he's a good one! May God bless you, Deacon Stan and your family abundantly.

Prayers always,
Bill

Re: Children baptised to get into Catholic schools [Re: Fr Serge Keleher] #273338 01/15/08 10:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 704
R
rcguest Offline
Bill from Pgh
Member
Offline
Bill from Pgh
Member
R
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 704
Originally Posted by Serge Keleher
Even crazier is the phenomenon of parents who cannot be bothered having their offspring baptized, but will nevertheless demand (not ask, demand) that the unbaptized child (who can be even ten years old) be given a Catholic funeral. Go figure.

Fr. Serge


Dear Father Serge,

Sadly I know people who become extremely indignant when politely asked why they are seeking baptism for their children when they don't bother to practice the faith themselves.

Bless Father,
Bill





Re: Children baptised to get into Catholic schools [Re: Memo Rodriguez] #273341 01/15/08 11:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 704
R
rcguest Offline
Bill from Pgh
Member
Offline
Bill from Pgh
Member
R
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 704
Originally Posted by Memo Rodriguez
Hello,

At St. Jude, there is no requirement for a child to be baptized for enrolling in the school.

Of course, there is a tuition discount available to registered and active parishioners, but now that I think about it, I guess you could still be all that without being baptized.

If we truly believe in the grace of the sacraments, we should let them stand by their own. They should not be the reward for completing any kind of program, nor the requirement for any other "benefit".

Shalom,
Memo


Dear Memo,

As far as I know the same holds true in Pittsburgh.

I agree, as you said, the sacraments should and will stand on their own.

Bill

Re: Children baptised to get into Catholic schools [Re: rcguest] #273342 01/15/08 11:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 704
R
rcguest Offline
Bill from Pgh
Member
Offline
Bill from Pgh
Member
R
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 704
Dear JGC,

Here in the US, at least where I live, the Catholic schools aren't oversubscribed and therefore outsiders are welcome, if they agree to abide by the rules, albeit for a higher fee.

I have no problem with a Muslim or anyone else attending a Catholic school if that is what they desire. The church allows this in many countries, the Holy Land is but one shining example. If nothing more may the fruits of this be tolerance.

Bill

Re: Children baptised to get into Catholic schools [Re: rcguest] #273345 01/15/08 11:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564
F
Fr Serge Keleher Offline
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564
It is certainly true that even Catholic parents who do not go to Mass value the schools and want their children to attend the Catholic school system. In any number of underprivileged areas, people of various religions or no religions often prefer the Catholic schools to the public schools, and we have every reason to realize that admitting the children under these conditions can help to rebuild the Faith (in the first instance) or inculcate the Faith (in the second instance) - but everything must be above-board. This includes telling the Catholic parents to have their children baptized!

Fr. Serge

Re: Children baptised to get into Catholic schools [Re: rcguest] #273389 01/16/08 03:13 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,930
Pani Rose Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,930
Originally Posted by rcguest
Originally Posted by Serge Keleher
Even crazier is the phenomenon of parents who cannot be bothered having their offspring baptized, but will nevertheless demand (not ask, demand) that the unbaptized child (who can be even ten years old) be given a Catholic funeral. Go figure.

Fr. Serge


Dear Father Serge,

Sadly I know people who become extremely indignant when politely asked why they are seeking baptism for their children when they don't bother to practice the faith themselves.

Bless Father,
Bill






That is why there have been many instances of priest denying Baptism. There has to be a clear understanding that it is not a baptism of 'superstition'. Sad, in both instances.

Re: Children baptised to get into Catholic schools [Re: Pani Rose] #273391 01/16/08 03:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,930
Pani Rose Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,930
Here in the south, many Protestants are educated in the Catholic Schools. The school systems are not the best, as most people know, and the Catholic schools have the highest success rates.

It is funny, that is why the public school system came about. People didn't want kids educated by Catholics. Well now, they come to the Catholic schools for a good education. Go figure!


The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2020 (Forum 1998-2020). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3