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Catholic-Orthodox international commission revival #27360
12/13/05 12:18 PM
12/13/05 12:18 PM
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Amadeus Offline OP
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From Catholic World News:

==================================================

Catholic-Orthodox theological dialogue revived

Rome, Dec. 13 (CWNews.com) - Catholic and Orthodox officials are meeting in Rome this week to organize the next sessions of a joint theological study committee.

Cardinal Walter Kasper, the president of the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity, is heading up preparations for the Vatican, while Metropolitan Jean Zizioulas is the chief Orthodox official involved in this week's talks. The organizing committee is setting the themes to be discussed, and the timing of the meeting at which Catholic and Orthodox theologians will resume a discussion that has been interrupted for more than five years.

==================================================

Amado

Re: Catholic-Orthodox international commission revival #27361
12/13/05 02:25 PM
12/13/05 02:25 PM
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incognitus Offline
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Thanks, Amado, for this pleasant news. I trust we will all be supporting this initiative in our prayers.

Incognitus

Re: Catholic-Orthodox international commission revival #27362
12/13/05 04:18 PM
12/13/05 04:18 PM
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kollyvas Offline
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I would suggest to them to avoid macro issues and pursue practical and doable things like a liturgical commission or a framework of Patristic exchange between monasteries, leading to rediscovering the West's traditions prior to Charlemagne and a more "ecumenical theology and liturgy." Every time they make grand statements, the Orthodox, they alienate themselves from their base and set this dialogue back...And, also, the Orthodox should call on the papacy to elevate the Eastern Riters in a challenge to see if they can help implement Patristic renewal...


We know as we are known...
Re: Catholic-Orthodox international commission revival #27363
12/13/05 04:28 PM
12/13/05 04:28 PM
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Our Lady's slave Offline
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Kollyvas

Would you care to expand on this statement ?
Quote
And, also, the Orthodox should call on the papacy to elevate the Eastern Riters in a challenge to see if they can help implement Patristic renewal...

Re: Catholic-Orthodox international commission revival #27364
12/13/05 04:57 PM
12/13/05 04:57 PM
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kollyvas Offline
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All right,

1). Real reunion of both churches can only occur via Patristic renewal in both which is preeminent and sovereign...This is the only way all the disputes can be satisfactorily resolved, without schisms and revolts.

2). Eastern Rite communities should come to represent a barometer of how well that Patristic renewal is transpiring in the West, how well conciliarity is being reborn and can work in ways with Rome as an equal partner, which the Orthodox can't, providing an example of how restored unity works and looks while resolving the issue of the status of these communities and their future role. Rome needs to develop these bodies as AUTOCEPHALOUS institutions. It is an equitable consideration of these people, and by Rome having an equal Eastern partner to sort things out with, it could give them a mild taste of what they'll eventually encounter with the Orthodox. It puts forward a model and formative process of reunion based in Patristic renewal. Ad fontes, the only way...


We know as we are known...
Re: Catholic-Orthodox international commission revival #27365
12/13/05 05:02 PM
12/13/05 05:02 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by kollyvas:
...
2). Eastern Rite communities ...
I assume you are referring to the Eastern CHURCHES in communion with Rome. Or did you have something else in mind? confused

يا ربي يسوع المسيح،يا ابن الله،ارحمنا نحن الخطأة

Re: Catholic-Orthodox international commission revival #27366
12/13/05 05:07 PM
12/13/05 05:07 PM
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kollyvas Offline
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Apply whatever nomenclature you will, yes...


We know as we are known...
Re: Catholic-Orthodox international commission revival #27367
12/13/05 05:09 PM
12/13/05 05:09 PM
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Dear Kobzar and Anhelyna,

I think Kollyvas is referring to the "Roman Catholics of the Eastern Rites."

After all, you Uniates accept the Filioque, Purgatory, the Papacy, the Marian dogmas, have a whole slew of liturgical Latinizations you are apparently proud of and put up with constant brow-beating by Rome!

What do you expect people to refer to you as?

Alex

Re: Catholic-Orthodox international commission revival #27368
12/13/05 05:14 PM
12/13/05 05:14 PM
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kollyvas Offline
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I was hoping to be constructive and not get into polemics...The alternative currently on the table, which has more partizans and a general and VERY influential pressure behind it, is the wholesale return of the Eastern Rite communities to the ep/Orthodox mother churches. I neither think that plausible nor equitable to most of these communities. I offer a pragmatic reconsideration of the paradigm, nothing more.


We know as we are known...
Re: Catholic-Orthodox international commission revival #27369
12/13/05 05:34 PM
12/13/05 05:34 PM
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Dear kollyvas,

It's called using common courtesy.

I don't agree with Anglicanism, but I'll refer to its chief hierarch as the Archbishop of Canterbury because that is his recognised title. If some groups says they are "X", then we should have the decency to refer to them as "X". If the Moscow Patriarchate says it's parishes in Ukraine comprise the Ukrainian Orthodox Church then that's how I will refer to them, at least in public discourse.

You see the Eastern Catholics as "Eastern Rite communities" - fine, that is your prerogative. But when discussing them in public, especially on a forum which is heavily populated by Eastern Catholics, "common courtesy" begs you use the appropriate "nomenclature".

As for future possibilities, when communion is restored between "East" and "West" it will only be natural that, over time, the EC and EO Churches will re-unite. As everyone will then be in communion with each other, why do some people insist on one group 'returning' to another, rather than a coming together? I know the end result is the same, but words and their conotations have great meaning. If Eastern Catholics remain as separate from their Orthodox brethren after restoring communion, then we will have achieved nothing.

Oυτις ημιν φιλει ου φροντιδα | Nemo Nos Diliget Non Curamus

Re: Catholic-Orthodox international commission revival #27370
12/13/05 05:45 PM
12/13/05 05:45 PM
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here's some timely interviews with Orthodox partcipants from 30 Days :

Interview with Metropolitan Philarete of Minsk

Interview with Ioannis Zizioulas, Metropolitan of Pergamum

Re: Catholic-Orthodox international commission revival #27371
12/13/05 05:51 PM
12/13/05 05:51 PM
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kollyvas Offline
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Firstly, I intended no disrespect and Latin authorities refer to Eastern Rite groups as "Eastern Rite communities." Secondly, the question of the Eastern Rite groups in Communion with Rome being local churches is problematic. 1). Many times these bodies are parallel to Orthodox jurisdictions.
2). From my understanding of "local church," which I am hinting at and HOPING for, the Eastern Rite churches would have to be AUTOCEPHALOUS in order for that to make proper in Patristic and Canonical sense. The point I am making IS THAT I ENDORSE IT AND WANT TO SEE IT COME TO FRUITION.
3). What is on the table right now/has been is an unripe return. What I am talking about may mean return in some instances, yes, but in the majority of cases that becomes IMPOSSIBLE, for these communities WILL BE INDEPENDENT AND SOVEREIGN local churches in Communion but not dependent upon Orthodox and Catholic bodies.
Please moderate your insistence on animosity.


We know as we are known...
Re: Catholic-Orthodox international commission revival #27372
12/13/05 06:03 PM
12/13/05 06:03 PM
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Kollyvas,

whatever does this mean
Quote
Please moderate your insistence on animosity.
Who is insisting on animosity ?

Now please forgive me while I try and work out the meaning of the first part of your post

Re: Catholic-Orthodox international commission revival #27373
12/13/05 06:04 PM
12/13/05 06:04 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by kollyvas:
Please moderate your insistence on animosity.
Was this directed to me? If so, I take great offense. Unless, of course, disagreeing with you means I 'insist on animosity'.

For some reason a line with the words "pot" and "black" comes to mind... How does that one go?

Oυτις ημιν φιλει ου φροντιδα | Nemo Nos Diliget Non Curamus

Re: Catholic-Orthodox international commission revival #27374
12/13/05 06:06 PM
12/13/05 06:06 PM
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kollyvas Offline
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It's pretty clear that some biases have crept in in an abusive way, for what I've put forward was neither offensive nor denigrating in the slightest, but rather encouragement. Moreover, this has become ever so clear after I've given clarification of my points and it's been IGNORED. This, then, is purely an argumentative provocation. I understand a fishing expedition when I see one. No, it's clear you have an agenda with ME, and it's really uncalled for. Take offense all you want at my defense of myself, but, really, stay on topic...


We know as we are known...
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