The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
Alexander T., Raphael1999, Adrián Badida, fr nick, Andres Belizario
5640 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (1 invisible), 186 guests, and 76 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Byzantine Nebraska
Church of the Holy Trinity (UGCC) - Brazil
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
Upgraded Russian icon corner
Russian Greek Catholic Global Congress
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics34,826
Posts412,415
Members5,640
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Could it be Possible? #274028 01/19/08 12:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 106
D
Dandelion Offline OP
BANNED
Member
OP Offline
BANNED
Member
D
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 106
hi all,

I have been wondering about for some time now about the writings, disciplines & theories that the previous or today's in age thinkers came up with about certain issues basing their ideas upon experience?

For example St. Jerome had a girlfriend and a not so good relationship with her, could it be possible due to the not so good relationship with her that he based his theory about celibacy being enforced?

also, (IMOW, in my own words) some philosopher (can't remember which one) thought that whatever you were born into (class or talent that one had) you stayed
there, and so on for generations, and that was your fate w/o change.

if so, I do not believe in this theory and why would Christian philosophers base a theory on this type of thinking?

Thank You for your response,

Dandelion (learning)

Re: Could it be Possible? [Re: Dandelion] #274029 01/19/08 12:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 106
D
Dandelion Offline OP
BANNED
Member
OP Offline
BANNED
Member
D
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 106
another example would be something like this;
someone may have had a bad experience with lets say an orange, and and prefers an apple instead of an orange, now this person with the bad experience gets a few others to believe that oranges are bad for you( based upon his/her experience), and gets the others to believe it and also want to stay in "selected group" through peer pressure, now comes the time to make a theory on whether oranges or apples are better for you, and the majority vote is based upon a peer group's biased opinion.


Dandelion

Re: Could it be Possible? [Re: Dandelion] #274041 01/19/08 02:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,936
Alice Offline
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,936
I believe that every single human being is a product of their own unique experiences personal or peripheral, and that in one way or another, it effects their thinking and philosophies.

Alice


Re: Could it be Possible? [Re: Alice] #274074 01/19/08 08:23 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,214
Terry Bohannon Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,214
That depends on what you mean by experience. St. Jerome could not have been an authority on scripture if he did not have the experience of coming to have a proper understanding of the text and its meaning.

The view of a priest's duty to celibacy cannot be bound to St. Jerome. To address the issue as to why he was convinced that priests needed to be celibate, we need to bring in the arguments he used to convince others.

The historian's narrative can be more flexible than theology or philosophy. An idea, the support given for an idea, and the influence it had as dogma or canon law steps into different territory than where your question leads. We can get into trouble when trying to insert personal experiences as being major causes of the formation of an idea, primarily because there were many personal experiences he had which have not been recorded. How do we judge one experience as having more weight than the unseen experiences and reflections St. Jerome would have been intimately familiar with?

About one's station, the second issue you raise, that had more to do with the temperament of the society and the distribution of authority, wealth, and power, than with a single philosopher's theory. The Middle Ages, where this idea is sometimes claimed to be strictly enforced, was a bit more flexible than some modern writers and teachers take it to have been. The English feudal system was very different than the relationship between the overlords, the lords, and peasants (or servants) in Italy and such as seen in Scandinavia when St. Olaf wrest control of Norway from various houses.

That people were locked into one station was at times true, but it was no way universal and does not at all apply to our time. At times the patriarch of a house would submit to feudal bondage for stability and protection, doing this he would be joining his children and his children's children to what some today judge to be servitude. At times this patriarch would be making a legal contract, and would be obligating himself and his family to working the duke's field at certain times in the week or during harvest or military service at other times. In that position he would have no legal right to declare the land he lived on as his, and if a daughter of his is the sole survivor of his seed then legal disputes could arise when she marries outside of the fiefdom. Both the duke of her father and the duke of her husband would be in dispute over the land she lived on. That is an example I read in a survey, I don't remember the specifics except that the author wrote this while discussing social and legal relationships during his description of the fiefdom of Anjou in France.

Another matter which cannot enter into this discussion is the influence of divine revelation, of whichever form. Grace as it affects or directs one's talents and shapes one's will, that too is something which cannot be understood from social experience.

Sorry if I have made too much of what you said, but I've been curious about the same questions myself.

Terry


Re: Could it be Possible? [Re: Dandelion] #274077 01/19/08 08:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,518
Dr. Eric Offline
Catholic Gyoza
Member
Offline
Catholic Gyoza
Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,518
Originally Posted by Dandelion
hi all,

I have been wondering about for some time now about the writings, disciplines & theories that the previous or today's in age thinkers came up with about certain issues basing their ideas upon experience?

For example St. Jerome had a girlfriend and a not so good relationship with her, could it be possible due to the not so good relationship with her that he based his theory about celibacy being enforced?

Thank You for your response,

Dandelion (learning)


From what I know, this sounds more like St. Augustine and not St. Jerome.

Re: Could it be Possible? [Re: Dr. Eric] #274079 01/19/08 08:51 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,214
Terry Bohannon Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,214
St. Augustine was rather lusty in his youth, as he says in his Confessions.

Re: Could it be Possible? [Re: Terry Bohannon] #274122 01/20/08 05:27 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 106
D
Dandelion Offline OP
BANNED
Member
OP Offline
BANNED
Member
D
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 106
Terry & Dr. Eric,

Thank You both for your insight, and I do think it was
St. Augustine, and not St. Jerome...oops!

oh well, I am still going to wonder about it anyway.

Dandelion


Re: Could it be Possible? [Re: Terry Bohannon] #274129 01/20/08 01:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 106
D
Dandelion Offline OP
BANNED
Member
OP Offline
BANNED
Member
D
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 106
Terry,
PHP Code
Another matter which cannot enter into this discussion is the influence of divine revelation, of whichever form. Grace as it affects or directs one's talents and shapes one's will, that too is something which cannot be understood from social experience.



for an example: lets suppose that you possess a talent that you might be good at, and no longer want to do, but others "only" see that talent and want you to do it.
In a sense it is like the "old" English feudal system reoccurring, and not thrying to think out of the box.

ps does this make any sense to you in what I am trying to convey?

God Bless

Dandelion

Re: Could it be Possible? [Re: Dandelion] #274136 01/20/08 05:00 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,214
Terry Bohannon Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,214
Yes, but who would these people be who apply pressure? Parents? Friends?

The pressure could still be there. The pressure might be greater where the workforce is limited. Let's say for specialized skills that are attractive in the business world, one father is skilled in getting the highest yield in an acre of soy. This father is more efficient than anybody around, he knows exactly how much fertilizer to put in and how much time to spend on treating the soil. He calculates everything and the other farmers in his district are amazed at how much profit he makes from one yield. A son of his would have a lot of pressure to follow in suit, to support his dad while he is able and to take over the management of work when his father retires. This father could teach his son all the tricks of the trade, and his son may even find or developing higher yields. At the point of the father's retirement, this son will face a lot of pressure. If he were to run off to drum in a band, he could be seen as a wild one and shameful to his family for having betrayed his father's intentions for him.

Do you mean talents possessed in that kind of situation?

Terry

Re: Could it be Possible? [Re: Terry Bohannon] #274137 01/20/08 05:08 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 106
D
Dandelion Offline OP
BANNED
Member
OP Offline
BANNED
Member
D
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 106
no,

Dandelion


Moderated by  Alice, Father Deacon Ed, theophan 

The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2020 (Forum 1998-2020). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3