This is from another thread, but as it pertains to the RDL and raises a significant challenge for us as a church, I thought it worthy of further examination here.

Dn. Anthony

OK, I originally put the cart before the horse. Steve Petach put it right.

Ed

The conclusion to be drawn from this is that the RDL is not then the solution to the problems in the BCC.

The larger question of course is, "Do we conform ourselves to the Liturgy or do make the Liturgy in our image and likeness?" Much of the problem in looking at the Liturgy as a creation of man, and thus an object of historical study and change, is that we are free then to change it as we see fit. It must first be seen, however, as a gift from God. Indeed, like the Scriptures themselves, it is a gift which comes through human hands, but nonetheless it is a Divine Liturgy. If we really thought some things were Divine, we would dare not alter them, lest we perish.

As moderns, we have just gotten into the bad habit of thinking that everything which is not of the natural order is simply a creation of man which we can change to suit our own particular needs.

One of my sources of consternation with the RDL wasn't the RDL itself... But the time, effort, and money put into its development, printing, and dissemination. For some time, my concern has been "why now?"

If one has a mind to do so, thinking back to those glorious pre-RDL days that some are so nostolgic for (frankly, I largely stay out of the debate on it, so I don't discuss the pros or cons of it unto itself much)... well thinking back to those glorious days were we in great shape then? Was our ratio of funerals to baptisms significantly different? How many grandchildren were to be found?

Some may roll their eyes at me and suggest this has become my hobby horse... (in fact, recently I have been writing more about it, but have felt this way for some time). Fact of the matter is, Eastern Christian churches of any stripe - EO, OO, EC - have largely been in decline where immigration has not been present.

Some of what we are dealing with today is in fact neither related to, addressed by, or exacerbated with the RDL.

We scrap this translation, involve all the other Byzantines in the process with the blessing of the Orthodox, and begin again.

While that's taking place, educate our people that we are Orthodox in our Liturgical practices and Catholic in Doctrine. Explain what Latinizations are, and that our church was slated to go out of existence. Remove the last of the Latinizations, and continue with praying Vespers, Matins the hours, etc. Make sure every Church has an icon screen & veil.

By the time everyone is on the same page with our new/old liturgical practices, the correct Liturgy will be ready, and people will be ready for unto ages of ages & the word orthodox. Prepare people for at least 1.5 hour Liturgy.

Remember if we get caught up in the cost of the RDL, saying, "but look how much money we've wasted?" Then we also need to remember, "money is the root of all evil."

People like me come here, to this board, to obtain information about Byzantine churches. If I was here to investigate a church with a view toward changing religions/rites, I'd run screaming the other way based on all the bitterness I find.

I have attended the local Byzantine church a few times, and the only comment I heard about the liturgy was "they changed it, now nobody knows" as someone tried to steer me toward the right page in the book. And the liturgy lasted an hour and a half. I don't see the problem.

What is your evidence for the EO being in decline? My impression is that it's just the opposite. A friend in TN said they've missions to support the steady stream of converts from evangelicalism.

This is very good and nice, but when did the Holy Spirit give us a copy of the Divine Liturgy? The whole idea of Liturgy is that it is a work of the people. People made the Liturgy to show our love to God. If your son or daughter drew you a picture and it was all scribbles, would you yell at them and not accept it because it wasn't up to your standard? No Liturgy, none, will ever live up to God's standard, we just hope and pray He accepts the best present we can give.

This seems to be the problem for Christians of the True Faith from the get-go. There is an ancient rule of faith that states a tight relationship between what one believes (doctrine) and what one prays (liturgial practice). People have their own certain ideas regarding what constitutes *Orthodox* and what constitutes *Catholic*. To suggest that one is both is an invitation to confusion. How do you educate that one is both when one is neither?

Ed

The quote is actually, "For the love of money is the root of all evils." (1 Timothy 6:10)

However the exact wording goes, when you choose the cost of something over doing the right thing(s), you're in big trouble.

The cost over the long haul may be the undoing of the Ruthenian Church. Is that expensive enough for you???

Even if it will cost alot of money who cares.It was and is a bad idea!

The cost of doing the RDL or the cost of UN-doing the RDL is the undoing of the Ruthenian Church? If choosing money over the right things is the worry, then why worry about the costs either way?

We have already seen what can happen with the cumulative financial and volunteer efforts of 100 years of a parish's life vanishing at the stroke of the Bishop's pen. In the long term all their effort could be considered 'wasted', money lost. But along the way, perhaps untold numbers of souls had been guided, supported by those efforts of those parishioners over the last century.

The costs associated with thr RDL have already been paid. Gone, not to return. (much like our taxes). If we spend all our energy focusing on the impact of the RDL in negative ways, we will only reap the negative benefit. I must note here that I myself was not pleased with the inclusive language used in the translation. However I have been generally happy with the music settings which are now considerably more faithful to the Slavonic melodies used in our parish.
(another note: I say in our/my parish. I know that the melodies aren't exactly what every parish used. for the purpose of this discussion, I don't care.)

There are times I regret having posted my comment used as the impetus for this thread as it seems to only stir the same wounds within our church rather than enlightened discussion.

Exactly, my brother. That is why there is so much talk about organic change--over time. This RDL was not a work of the people. It was the work of a committee with an agenda. It was forced down the people's throats.