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Troparion of the Groundhog #278489
02/14/08 08:44 AM
02/14/08 08:44 AM
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Virginia!
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John
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While snooping around a church’s archive near Punxsutawney PA, I found this from a page that was ripped out of the menaion for February 2nd. In view that it is the feast day tomorrow, I am reprinting the missing page.

Quote
February 2/15
Troparion of the Holy Ground Hog Basil - Tone 4


O holy ground hog, Basil,
Thou didst commence thy slumber after the feast of the Nativity.
And now on the fortieth day,
Thou doth awaken to predict for us the coming of spring.
For if thou wilt see thy shadow
Then thou wilt renew thy slumber for six more weeks.
But if the skies doth be full of gray or rain,
Thou wilt stay awake for the whole of the Fast;
And we will see an early spring.

At the Matins Service during the procession of the Great Doxology the ground hog, Basil, is carried around the church thrice, while the faithful sing this holy hymn. The service should be conducted so that "Glory to Thee Who hast shown us the light!" is announced precisely at sunrise, and the procession finisheth shortly thereafter in the out of doors under the sky.


[Linked Image]


Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Administrator] #278491
02/14/08 08:48 AM
02/14/08 08:48 AM
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Posts: 250
The Oak Tree
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Is this from the New American Revised Menaion?

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Secret Squirrel] #278510
02/14/08 11:29 AM
02/14/08 11:29 AM
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u.s.a.
nicholas Offline
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No, it is from the old recension. In fact, a new revised troparion has been prepared, and it about to be promulaged and mandated. Feminists objected to the term 'groudhog' because hog is exlusively male (sows everywhere have been outraged, and have suggested the more inclusive term 'swine').

And the use of archaic language has been entirely done away with, since that is not the way people talk nowadays anyhow.

Nick

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: nicholas] #278511
02/14/08 11:57 AM
02/14/08 11:57 AM
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Rocky Hill, CT
John K Offline
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Originally Posted by nicholas
No, it is from the old recension. In fact, a new revised troparion has been prepared, and it about to be promulaged and mandated. Feminists objected to the term 'groudhog' because hog is exlusively male (sows everywhere have been outraged, and have suggested the more inclusive term 'swine').

And the use of archaic language has been entirely done away with, since that is not the way people talk nowadays anyhow.

Nick


I'm assuming then, Rome approved it as well? What about it's use in other languages?

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: nicholas] #278515
02/14/08 12:14 PM
02/14/08 12:14 PM
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Washington
Marina Karlovna Offline
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Actually, any pig that weighs more than 70 pounds is a "hog."

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Marina Karlovna] #278524
02/14/08 01:16 PM
02/14/08 01:16 PM
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nicholas Offline
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Well, since I'm well over 70 pounds (with plenty to spare)....

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: nicholas] #278526
02/14/08 01:32 PM
02/14/08 01:32 PM
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PA
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Are you serious, this has to be some sort of a joke?

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: podkarpatski] #278528
02/14/08 01:54 PM
02/14/08 01:54 PM
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nicholas Offline
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Originally Posted by podkarpatski
Are you serious, this has to be some sort of a joke?


Yes, it is not serious, it is a groundhog day joke.

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: nicholas] #278541
02/14/08 02:42 PM
02/14/08 02:42 PM
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Washington
Marina Karlovna Offline
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My agricultural definition of "hog" was in reference to the feminist sows' complaint. It was definitely NOT a comment on any of the forum participants. I'm a little sensitive about that comparison myself.

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Marina Karlovna] #278543
02/14/08 02:47 PM
02/14/08 02:47 PM
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Elizabeth Maria Offline
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Basil in this case is obviously a male.

Thanks for the humorous troparion.

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Marina Karlovna] #278546
02/14/08 03:10 PM
02/14/08 03:10 PM
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Hollidaysburg, PA
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MARINA K:

I've been told that if I had to "live off the fat of the land," that I'd have plenty of acreage to live off. Was that a cut? grin

BOB

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: theophan] #278692
02/15/08 08:28 AM
02/15/08 08:28 AM
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Rocky Hill, CT
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I've been doing more research regarding this text and it's accompanying ceremonial. I've found that it is not mentioned ANYWHERE in ANY typikon, Slavic or Hellenic, before 1692. It looks like it's a Baroque accretion. Probably based on a Latin ceremony of the same day, where in parts of Germany and Poland, if said rodent viewed his shadow prior to Mass, he was made bishop for the day, but if he did not, he became errr, ummmm dinner for the day! Also, something else that does not seem quite right is the fact that it mentions Matins being celebrated in the early morning hours to coincide with the rising of the sun. Is outrage!!!

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: John K] #278693
02/15/08 08:30 AM
02/15/08 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by John K
I've been doing more research regarding this text and it's accompanying ceremonial. I've found that it is not mentioned ANYWHERE in ANY typikon, Slavic or Hellenic, before 1692. It looks like it's a Baroque accretion. Probably based on a Latin ceremony of the same day, where in parts of Germany and Poland, if said rodent viewed his shadow prior to Mass, he was made bishop for the day, but if he did not, he became errr, ummmm dinner for the day! Also, something else that does not seem quite right is the fact that it mentions Matins being celebrated in the early morning hours to coincide with the rising of the sun. Is outrage!!!

biggrin biggrin biggrin


Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Father Anthony] #278718
02/15/08 11:16 AM
02/15/08 11:16 AM
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I must respectfully dissent from John K.
opinion that the Service of the Holy
"Groundhog" is a mere Latinization .

It is at first puzzling that this service
should have appeared at all in the Eastern
Churches, inasmuch as the groundhog proper,
marmota monax, is found only in North
America. However, a solution to this problem is
not far to seek. The groundhog is a member of
the family Scuiridae and the genus Marmota
of which many representatives are found in Europe
and Asia. One of these is the Marmota Bobax
whose range extends from Central Europe to Central
Asia. This creature is in fact the animal for whom
the Service was composed.

We learn this, in fact, from the Vita of
St. Minimaximos the Little Known and Very Footsore,
the original manuscript by Monk Dimitri the Otherwise
Unoccupied of the Monastery of the Swamps of Smolensk
to be found in the Angarsk Public Library Manuscripts
Division.

There was a people called the Bobaki at one time
dwelling in several remote and obscure valleys of
the northern Urals. So remote and obscure were these
valleys that no missionaries reached them until St.
Minimaximos' appearance about 1685. Monk Dimitri tells
us that the Bobaki reverenced a certain rodent, called
a sirokwhich they regarded as the herald of the
Sun-God, a deity central to their religion - understandably,
given the climate. St. Minimaximos succeeded in
Christianizing these people but found that though
they were willing to give up their pagan gods, they
retained a great reverence for their siroki.

To accomodate them, therefore, the Saint composed the
Service of which the Administrator speaks. Monk Dimitri
mentions this specifically, although with some distaste,
for they had a rodent problem in his monastery.

The Bobaki learned from St. Minimaximos what they
had never before known, that it was warmer further
south. In 1690, therefore, they packed up their
tents and sirokiand moved to the Crimea,
where the village of Bobakisirosk is still to be
found with its parish church of St. Minimaximos.
There are also many colonies of marmots to be found in
the vicinity. Having been released from their cold
and obscure valleys, the Bobaki at once became great
travellers, visiting every monastery and cathedral
they heard of. Thus did this service spread through
all the East, at least the parts where they liked
marmots.

Edmac

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Father Anthony] #278719
02/15/08 11:18 AM
02/15/08 11:18 AM
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Pittsburgh
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I believe the priest in Punxsatawny probably ripped the page out because our current groundhog, Phil, is actually female. It's "Pope Joan" all over again!

I think I heard Dan Brown is writing a novel about the cover up.

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: domilsean] #278726
02/15/08 12:00 PM
02/15/08 12:00 PM
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Hollidaysburg, PA
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Living not far from the famed groundhog, we have a saying here in central PA. If it's reported taht we have six more weeks of winter, we say, "Let's eat the rat!" biggrin laugh biggrin

BOB

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: theophan] #278728
02/15/08 12:07 PM
02/15/08 12:07 PM
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California
Elizabeth Maria Offline
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Originally Posted by theophan
Living not far from the famed groundhog, we have a saying here in central PA. If it's reported taht we have six more weeks of winter, we say, "Let's eat the rat!" biggrin laugh biggrin

BOB


But then, won't you be violating the fast?

smile biggrin laugh biggrin

Last edited by Elizabeth Maria; 02/15/08 12:07 PM.
Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Edmac] #278729
02/15/08 12:09 PM
02/15/08 12:09 PM
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Rocky Hill, CT
John K Offline
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I thank brother Edmac for his contribution to figuring out this quandry. I'm currently in email contact with Br. Lemuel from St. Raggedundie's Abbey in North-Westphalia in Germany. He purports to have a missal (from Paderborn) with the first written form of making of a rodent bishop on 2nd February, from the early 10th century. This investure happened during Lauds on that day, prior to the Candlemass ceremonies at Mass. If this missal does indeed exist, it would prove to debunk the myth of the Bobaki and cast off the shadow of St. Minimaximos, that Br. Lemuel says has been hanging over the Abbey since the 17th century visit of an anonymous Eastern hieromonk, and to rout out heresy and paganism from underneath the church. I am hoping to get facsimile copies of these pages sent to me and have been requested to send them off to certain liturgical experts in both Eastern and Western studies in Rome as well. Br. Lemuel says that this text is well guarded in a sub-terranean chamber in the cloister of the abbey and is only brought out briefly one morning each year, though will not tell me which it is. Please stay tuned.

Did any Old Calendar parishes keep this rite this morning??? Pictures would be much appreciated!

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: John K] #278751
02/15/08 02:10 PM
02/15/08 02:10 PM
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Edmac Offline
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John K: interesting development. I do not think, however, that
we will find the two traditions to be related. The distance
in time and space is great, for one thing. On the other, recall
that the 10th Century was a BAD time for the Church, Germany,
and people in general, at least in the West.The terms "bishop"
and "rodent" might easily become associated in people's minds,
especially if the people were the subjects of a Prince-Bishop,
numerous in Germany.Why,the same association has even been made
in later centuries! (I am thinking of course of most of the
English bishops under Henry VIII and of the likes of Talleyrand).
Now, as you undoubtedly know from your perusal of VonSchmeckenmacher's
History of Monasticism in Northern
Westphalia and Western Saxony 731 - 1212AD
St. Raggeduddie's
Abbey's monks on just awful terms with Bishops of Muenster, Osnabruck, Cologne
and occasionally Utrecht during the whole
of the Tenth and Eleventh Centuries due to those prelates forcing their
sons, brothers, uncles and cousins
on the monks as their abbots and subsequently seizing upon
the entire stock of very strong beer produced by the monks,
leaving nothing for the good brothers. It would tick anyone off!
(Innocent III solved the problem by making the place an
Abbey of Papal Beer-Right, and taking only 10% of their beer.
This is probably why the monks stayed Catholic at the Reformation,
especially when they heard that Martin Luther liked
his beer). Anyhow, I can easily imagine the monks inaugurating
this ceremony of making a rodent-bishop in scorn and mockery
of their oppressors.

Let me know!

Edmac

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Edmac] #278754
02/15/08 02:35 PM
02/15/08 02:35 PM
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DC area
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Y'all have WAAAAAYY too much time on your hands. For which I am deeply grateful!

biggrin

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Elizabeth Maria] #278755
02/15/08 02:40 PM
02/15/08 02:40 PM
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Washington
Marina Karlovna Offline
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Originally Posted by Elizabeth Maria
Originally Posted by theophan
Living not far from the famed groundhog, we have a saying here in central PA. If it's reported taht we have six more weeks of winter, we say, "Let's eat the rat!" biggrin laugh biggrin

BOB


But then, won't you be violating the fast?

smile biggrin laugh biggrin


Some foods (and I use the term with reservations) are penitential by nature.

Also considering that the use of "fake foods" such as soy burgers and non-dairy creamer is considered cheating, perhaps taking advantage of the fast to abstain from a dubious delicacy such as ripe rodent might be considered too joyous an occasion for Great Lent.

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Administrator] #278757
02/15/08 02:48 PM
02/15/08 02:48 PM
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harmon3110 Offline
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Originally Posted by Administrator
While snooping around a church’s archive near Punxsutawney PA, I found this from a page that was ripped out of the menaion for February 2nd. In view that it is the feast day tomorrow, I am reprinting the missing page.

Quote
February 2/15
Troparion of the Holy Ground Hog Basil - Tone 4


O holy ground hog, Basil,
Thou didst commence thy slumber after the feast of the Nativity.
And now on the fortieth day,
Thou doth awaken to predict for us the coming of spring.
For if thou wilt see thy shadow
Then thou wilt renew thy slumber for six more weeks.
But if the skies doth be full of gray or rain,
Thou wilt stay awake for the whole of the Fast;
And we will see an early spring.

At the Matins Service during the procession of the Great Doxology the ground hog, Basil, is carried around the church thrice, while the faithful sing this holy hymn. The service should be conducted so that "Glory to Thee Who hast shown us the light!" is announced precisely at sunrise, and the procession finisheth shortly thereafter in the out of doors under the sky.




Two questions:

Can we hold a vesperal liturgy the night before (of Presanctified Gifts) ?

Is there a potluck afterwards?

-- John

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: harmon3110] #278760
02/15/08 03:13 PM
02/15/08 03:13 PM
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Rocky Hill, CT
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Well--if you're on the OS calendar, it's not Lent for you yet, so there is no need to celebrate the Liturgy of the Pre-Sanctified Gifts, either Great Vespers or the Vigil should be done. And, since it is a Great Feast, a potluck after the Vespers or Vigil would most definitely be in order!


Edmac--I did consult my VonSchmeckenmacher's, however I am missing pages 78-143 dealing with the great beer revolts. Photo-copies of yours would be greatly appreciated. What is your take on the visit of the mysterious hieromonk from the East to St. Raggedundie's in the 17th century? Do you have more on the life of St. Minimaximos? I'm trying to stay focused, but something smells of cross-pollenation of rites here! The committee in Rome is getting itchy for evidence! Br. Lemuel must be to church and bed by now, for it's 9:15 in Germany.

John K

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: John K] #278781
02/15/08 05:44 PM
02/15/08 05:44 PM
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John: alas, no! My copy of VonSchmeckenmacher was lent to the
Subprior of St. Pantagruel's Abbey in Duluth who needs it for
his magnum opus, Beer in the History of Western Christianity
and who is worse than usual at returning books. His name
is Fr. Obsurantissimus Heiligenkreutz-Murphy-O'Connor OSB if you care to write to him.
Try writing in Old High German if possible, or failing that, Middle Low German.
Avoid General In-Between German, as it is lost on him. In case you were wondering,
he is a second cousin once removed of the Archbishop of Westminster, and on the other side,
17th in line for the position
of Holy Roman Emperor, should that dignity be restored. He humbly
denies that he has any claim to be the Real High King of Ireland.
That claim belongs to his nephew Liam, a bartender on W. 45th
St. in Manhattan.

As for the mysterious hiero-monk, I strongly suspect that it
was Minimaximos himself who was a great wanderer. After seeing
his beloved Bobaki safely and warmly settled in the Crimea, he
is said to have wandered off in a northwesterly direction muttering
about needing a drink. (It was not the time of the
Great Fast, of course). A few months walking could easily have
brought him to St. Raggedundie's which, thanks to Innocent III,
had plenty of beer on hand. It was strong beer, mind you! Very
strong beer.

I need not tell you that the greatest of saints are still sinners.
I fear, I very much fear, that after a few pints of
St. Raggedundie's Reserve with, perhaps, the cellerer, or maybe
the precentor, or maybe both, Minimaximos heard the story of
their rodent-bishop and became envious. Here was a holy rodent
many centuries older than his, and belonging to these Western
schismatics! Not to be borne! Everything in the East is older,
better and more Orthodox than anything the West (except, of
course, the beer, he admitted that). I think Minimaxie
(for short) made up a tale that took the Holy Rodent of the Bobaki
back to the times of Cyril and Methodios, Apostles of the Slavs,
with himself as the renewer of the tradition. I think it is this
that
has niggled at the minds of the holy brothers of St. Raggedundie's ever since.
They were not sophisticated men, that
monastery being known for beer, not learning, and St. Minimaxi was
obviously very holy, since he levitated even when sober. He also glowed in the dark,
but this could have been because of the
uranium long after discovered in large quantities in the valleys
formerly inhabited by the Bobaki, but the monks were not to know
this.

The only other source for the life of St. Minimaximos is a late
18th Century biography written by Fr. Vanya Ilarionovich
McGillicuddy (a convert), parish priest of the Bobaki in the
time of Catherine the Great, and based on the stories told by
his oldest parishioners. There is a copy in the Patriachal
Library in Moscow, another in the Vatican, and a third in
the public library of Alice Springs, Australia. Be warned that
it is written in a mixture (as far an anyone can tell) of
very bad Russian, very bad Ukrainian and so-so Munster Irish.
Those dudes in Rome are just having to go bide their time.
(The only person I know of who could possibly translate it
would be Mitred Archmandrite Serge Keleher of Dublin).

I wonder if you have heard of the miracle of the revivification
of St. Minimaximos. It happened in the time of the Boshies, in
1920. A party of the heathen dogs came to St. Minimaximos' Church
in Crimea, the only one dedicated to him in the whole world,
and tried to dig up his remains, buried in the altar. They
succeeded, and found the remains to be incorrupt, although
smelling somewhat of beer. Buried with him was his trusty
iron-shod walking stick. While the boobies were gaping,
St. Minimaxie opens his eyes, jumps to his feet, and starts
laying about him vigorously with his walking stick meanwhile
singing the troparia of the day in a voice more than human.
When he had floored the lot, he gave a whistle, and the church
was suddenly full of sirokiwho mercilessly bit the
kommunistiwhere-ever they could have them. It is reported
that seventeen of the malefactors thereafter died of rabies,
while three, who fled the country, became monks. No unbeliever
has dared to come near the place ever since. The affair being
over, St. Minimaxie laid down in his grave and the faithful beasts reburied him
and there he remains to this day.

Do try to get access to the missing pages of
VonSchmeckenmacher. The beer wars were very dramatic.
Just think of the heroic defense of the
Brewery by the Bd. Thombongorus of Bubenheim, two
novices and a passing hostler against twenty four
men-at-arms belonging to the insatiable Bishop
of Osnabruck in the year 993. The four heros died,
but not before they had slaughtered the men-at-arms.
I am happy to report that when the Emperor Otto I
heard of it, he had the bishop drowned in a barrel of
beer. Cheap beer.
Edmac


Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Edmac] #278791
02/15/08 06:37 PM
02/15/08 06:37 PM
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70x7 Offline
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Thank God somebody has finally translated this troparion to the holy groundhog Basil. Was the text from the Slavonic or the original Greek?

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: 70x7] #278792
02/15/08 06:40 PM
02/15/08 06:40 PM
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Posts: 250
The Oak Tree
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The Oak Tree
Originally Posted by 70x7
Thank God somebody has finally translated this troparion to the holy groundhog Basil. Was the text from the Slavonic or the original Greek?

Ukrainian wink

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Secret Squirrel] #278798
02/15/08 06:51 PM
02/15/08 06:51 PM
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Fr Serge Keleher Offline
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Hmm. What are the groundhog's views on the Filioque?

Fr. Serge

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: 70x7] #278803
02/15/08 07:33 PM
02/15/08 07:33 PM
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John K Offline
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Rocky Hill, CT
This translation appears to have all the markings of I.H. on it. I would guess that it was from the Slavonic and not the Greek.

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: John K] #278806
02/15/08 07:46 PM
02/15/08 07:46 PM
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Brooklyn, NY
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Edmac Offline
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Happily for the peace of the Church, the groundhog is unable
to express his (or, it may be, her) views on the Filioque.

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Edmac] #278815
02/15/08 09:40 PM
02/15/08 09:40 PM
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Takoma Park, MD
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Two Lungs Offline
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Originally Posted by Edmac
Happily for the peace of the Church, the groundhog is unable
to express his (or, it may be, her) views on the Filioque.


AMEN!

Prayers for those Clergy, and any others, who consistently bring forward divisive issues.

May the Lord show them ways to be constructive.

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Edmac] #278821
02/15/08 10:22 PM
02/15/08 10:22 PM
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Nan Offline
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Originally Posted by Edmac
My copy of VonSchmeckenmacher was lent to the Subprior of St. Pantagruel's Abbey in Duluth who needs it for his magnum opus, Beer in the History of Western Christianity and who is worse than usual at returning books.

You must be thinking of St. Pantagruel's Church and Taconite Plant in Duluth. St. Pantagruel's Abbey is in New Ulm, which is guarded by Herman the German, for obvious reasons.

Last edited by Nan; 02/15/08 10:26 PM.
Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: theophan] #278830
02/16/08 01:18 AM
02/16/08 01:18 AM
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Massachusetts
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Irish Melkite Offline
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Originally Posted by theophan
Living not far from the famed groundhog, we have a saying here in central PA. If it's reported taht we have six more weeks of winter, we say, "Let's eat the rat!" biggrin laugh biggrin


Bob,

A perfect addition to the non-Fast version of Two Guys' Chili biggrin

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Irish Melkite] #278845
02/16/08 08:16 AM
02/16/08 08:16 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 250
The Oak Tree
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The Oak Tree
That gave me an idea and after a fast search I found these delectable delights that can be used for Basil the groundhog. I am sure my Mrs will appreciate them.

Recipe 1
Recipe 2
3 additional recipes
crazy

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Secret Squirrel] #278847
02/16/08 08:31 AM
02/16/08 08:31 AM
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Glasgow, Scotland
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Our Lady's slave Offline
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only one snag with those SS - they ain't exactly fasting are they ?

I mean surely groundhogs have faces [ recognisable] and spines and are warm bloods ?

We need a definitive ruling here

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Our Lady's slave] #278848
02/16/08 08:32 AM
02/16/08 08:32 AM
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The Oak Tree
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Originally Posted by Our Lady's slave
only one snag with those SS - they ain't exactly fasting are they ?

I mean surely groundhogs have faces [ recognisable] and spines and are warm bloods ?

We need a definitive ruling here

For those on the Old Calendar, it should be no problem. If not that is what freezers were made for. biggrin

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Secret Squirrel] #278849
02/16/08 08:39 AM
02/16/08 08:39 AM
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Glasgow, Scotland
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Our Lady's slave Offline
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True enough - you have solved the problem there

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Nan] #278859
02/16/08 09:13 AM
02/16/08 09:13 AM
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Pittsburgh
domilsean Offline
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Nan,

I feel blessed to see that Herman the German has made his way into this conversation. Although, I think the Herman the German we should be referencing is the polite gentlemen emblazoned on the cans and bottles of Old German beer, now brewed by Pittsburgh Brewing Company.

[Linked Image]

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: domilsean] #278864
02/16/08 10:18 AM
02/16/08 10:18 AM
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USA
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Either youns have been fasting TOO much or youns have been drinking TOO much.

I think I lost it after the first post.

Ed


Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: EdHash] #278865
02/16/08 10:20 AM
02/16/08 10:20 AM
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Glasgow, Scotland
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Our Lady's slave Offline
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Ed - if this Brit can cope with it - you can smile

OH - and the NC folk are fasting so they certainly haven't been overindulging biggrin

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Our Lady's slave] #278878
02/16/08 12:46 PM
02/16/08 12:46 PM
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California
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Animals with vertebrae are classified as "meat."

So, even fish, frogs' legs, and snakes are forbidden during Great Lent, except on March 25 (unless that is Friday).

Where we live, there are some huge rattlesnakes in nearby hills. We live in a hilly rock pile. My husband has had to kill some rattlers because they were endangering lives. I have heard that the meat tastes similar to chicken; however, he left it for the birds, especially the crows.

This is also why eating lobster, shrimp, and crabs is allowed during Lent. They have an exoskeleton but no spine. Just hold the butter. smile

Last edited by Elizabeth Maria; 02/16/08 12:52 PM.
Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Elizabeth Maria] #278883
02/16/08 01:47 PM
02/16/08 01:47 PM
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Hollidaysburg, PA
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Quote
But then, won't you be violating the fast?


Elizabeth Maria:

Actually Groundhog day was foud days before Ash wEdnesday so one would have had four days to enjoy the "rat" and clean up the leftovers before Fat Tuesday--Mardi Gras. wink biggrin

BOB

Last edited by theophan; 02/16/08 01:49 PM.
Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Secret Squirrel] #278884
02/16/08 01:56 PM
02/16/08 01:56 PM
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Hollidaysburg, PA
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Quote
That gave me an idea and after a fast search I found these delectable delights that can be used for Basil the groundhog. I am sure my Mrs will appreciate them.

Recipe 1
Recipe 2
3 additional recipes


Secret Squirrel:

When I was growing up, there were people poor enough that did make regular meals of these rodents to fee their families. I've eaten rabbit, squirrel (sorry if any were relatives), grouse, pheasant, but never had a go at groundhog. We used to use them for target practice with our 22 rifles--farmers liked to have people take them out because they cause a lot of damage to farm machinery when they establish themselves in a field. They peer out from their burrows and all you see is the head through your scope.

BOB

Last edited by theophan; 02/16/08 01:57 PM.
Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: theophan] #279186
02/18/08 02:49 PM
02/18/08 02:49 PM
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Posts: 20
Washington
Marina Karlovna Offline
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or two days till Pure Monday.

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Marina Karlovna] #279288
02/19/08 03:21 AM
02/19/08 03:21 AM
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Posts: 706
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The picture's cool, but when will there be a proper groundhog icon to go with the troparion, and who will write it?!

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: indigo] #279290
02/19/08 03:42 AM
02/19/08 03:42 AM
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Glasgow, Scotland
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Our Lady's slave Offline
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You find the Iconographer and you may get some contributions smile


not saying what variety of contributions of course biggrin biggrin biggrin

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Our Lady's slave] #279337
02/19/08 12:17 PM
02/19/08 12:17 PM
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Washington
Marina Karlovna Offline
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It seems to me that the icon should be of St. Minimaximos with the Holy Groundhog Basil. I have seen other icons with animals (holy and/or otherwise) in them, but I don't think the canons would permit just the critter--however worthy he might be.

And, no, I am not interested in writing such an icon. I still have to finish St. John of San Francisco, and then I want to write St. Katherine, and then . . . (too many icons, too little time.)

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Marina Karlovna] #279376
02/19/08 04:21 PM
02/19/08 04:21 PM
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Marina, Sigh.I gather you're not in favor of petitioning for a canon change to allow the critter the spotlight. Surely we can come up with worthy reasons for sucha change. We must fight for what we believe in, we must not give up. I say...


oh, sorry...got a little carried away here.

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Administrator] #417959
02/02/18 08:06 AM
02/02/18 08:06 AM
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Posts: 6,363
Virginia!
Administrator Offline OP

John
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Virginia!
I had a request to re-post this. Happy Feast of the Holy Groundhog!

Originally Posted by Administrator
While snooping around a church's archive near Punxsutawney PA, I found this from a page that was ripped out of the menaion for February 2nd. In view that it is the feast day tomorrow, I am reprinting the missing page.

Quote
February 2/15
Troparion of the Holy Ground Hog Basil - Tone 4


O holy ground hog, Basil,
Thou didst commence thy slumber after the feast of the Nativity.
And now on the fortieth day,
Thou doth awaken to predict for us the coming of spring.
For if thou wilt see thy shadow
Then thou wilt renew thy slumber for six more weeks.
But if the skies doth be full of gray or rain,
Thou wilt stay awake for the whole of the Fast;
And we will see an early spring.

At the Matins Service during the procession of the Great Doxology the ground hog, Basil, is carried around the church thrice, while the faithful sing this holy hymn. The service should be conducted so that "Glory to Thee Who hast shown us the light!" is announced precisely at sunrise, and the procession finisheth shortly thereafter in the out of doors under the sky.


[Linked Image]


Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Administrator] #417961
02/02/18 04:06 PM
02/02/18 04:06 PM
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PA
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Perhaps I am "stuck" on the melodies of the Katavasias of the Presentation; but it seems to me that a "normal" (not special melody) Tone 3 would be a better fit, having the descending cadences occur on "feast of the Nativity" and "six more weeks", and the very lowest on "full of grey or rain".

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Administrator] #417962
02/03/18 09:12 AM
02/03/18 09:12 AM
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Posts: 6,363
Virginia!
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John
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Hmmmm.... I don't have access to the original texts. I don't know if they were written in Greek, Church Slavonic or Pennsylvania English. Maybe that would account for it?

biggrin

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Administrator] #417964
02/03/18 11:32 AM
02/03/18 11:32 AM
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PA
Thomas the Seeker Offline
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Originally Posted by Administrator
Hmmmm.... Pennsylvania English.

biggrin


Ach, vat is das "Pennsylvania English" that has you behexed onest?

"Dutchified English" ve speak still and Pennsylwania Dutch ve are already, but "Pennsylvania English" katze drecht for certain is.

Re: Troparion of the Groundhog [Re: Thomas the Seeker] #417967
02/05/18 03:26 PM
02/05/18 03:26 PM
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Posts: 1,924
MD
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Originally Posted by Thomas the Seeker
... a "normal" (not special melody) Tone 3 would be a better fit, having the descending cadences occur on "feast of the Nativity" and "six more weeks", and the very lowest on "full of grey or rain".
Depends on whose Tone 3 or Tone 4 doesn't it?

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