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#279762 - 02/22/08 02:40 PM Re: Kosovo's Independence In Days [Re: AMM]
Byzantophile Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/07
Posts: 480
Loc: Philadelphia, PA

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#279770 - 02/22/08 03:22 PM Re: Kosovo's Independence In Days [Re: Byzantophile]
Lawrence Offline
Member

Registered: 02/20/03
Posts: 2206
Loc: Illinois

Russia has now made a threat of force against NATO http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Feb22/0,4670,RussiaKosovo,00.html

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#279774 - 02/22/08 03:30 PM Re: Kosovo's Independence In Days [Re: Lawrence]
theophan Offline

Moderator
Member

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 5317
Loc: Hollidaysburg, PA
Color me not surprised. The Russians came to the defence of Serbia almost 100 years ago and I see no reason why they would not today. Russia sees herself as "the Big Brother of the Slavs." And lest we forget, they share much in terms of history, culture, and religion.

I wonder if WW3 could start where WW1 started? What am I bet???

BOB


Edited by theophan (02/22/08 03:31 PM)

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#279787 - 02/22/08 04:23 PM Re: Kosovo's Independence In Days [Re: theophan]
Marian Offline
Member

Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 937
Loc: Urban Desert
My sincere thought that no WW will begin. Russia gives no rusty dime on Serbia. As the USA, Russia plays. What if meanwhile people, children, women, men suffer?

What WW? For Kosovo? THey will break any law, only preserve their warmish life style.

So...Kosovo was stolen from Serbia. I wonder what asked Russia in return from the USA.

Another thought, about resources. If the Russian Gazprom will make a deal with Iran regarding the natural gas, then I do not see well the future of many souls.

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#279807 - 02/22/08 05:23 PM Re: Kosovo's Independence In Days [Re: Marian]
Alice Offline

Moderator
Member

Registered: 01/12/03
Posts: 9758
Loc: USA
Orthodox countries have generally banded together.


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#279811 - 02/22/08 06:23 PM Re: Kosovo's Independence In Days [Re: Alice]
byzanTN Offline
Member

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 5223
Loc: Knoxville, TN
I am afraid, though, that seeing the embassy burning on TV, will reinforce what many Americans already think about that part of Europe. That its inhabitants are backward and so prone to violence, they have to be restrained to keep them from killing each other. I have heard in classes, and also read that the only reason Yugoslavia lasted as long as it did, was because Tito was even more violent and vicious than his countrymen.

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#279872 - 02/23/08 12:39 PM Re: Kosovo's Independence In Days [Re: byzanTN]
Orest Offline
Member

Registered: 09/08/06
Posts: 507
Loc: Canada
There is going to be a protest rally today in front of American consulates in various cities.
In Toronto 10,000 people are expected. Seems like a large number but whatever the number it will be significant.
I just read this Serbian song about Kosova on another web sit:
Quote:
&#1054;&#1032; &#1050;&#1054;&#1057;&#1054;&#1042;&#1054;, &#1050;&#1054;&#1057;&#1054;&#1042;&#1054;!

&#1057;&#1072; &#1050;&#1086;&#1089;&#1086;&#1074;&#1072; &#1079;&#1086;&#1088;&#1072; &#1089;&#1074;&#1080;&#1115;&#1077;,
&#1057;&#1074;&#1080;&#1115;&#1077;, &#1089;&#1074;&#1080;&#1115;&#1077; &#1085;&#1086;&#1074;&#1080; &#1076;&#1072;&#1085;.
&#1043;&#1088;&#1072;&#1095;&#1072;&#1085;&#1080;&#1094;&#1072; &#1089;&#1074;&#1072; &#1091; &#1089;&#1112;&#1072;&#1112;&#1091;
&#1044;&#1086;&#1095;&#1077;&#1082;&#1091;&#1112;&#1077; &#1042;&#1080;&#1076;&#1086;&#1074;&#1076;&#1072;&#1085;.

&#1054;&#1112; &#1050;&#1086;&#1089;&#1086;&#1074;&#1086;, &#1050;&#1086;&#1089;&#1086;&#1074;&#1086;, &#1079;&#1077;&#1084;&#1113;&#1086; &#1084;&#1086;&#1112;&#1072; &#1074;&#1086;&#1113;&#1077;&#1085;&#1072;,
&#1047;&#1077;&#1084;&#1113;&#1086; &#1089;&#1083;&#1072;&#1074;&#1085;&#1080;&#1093; &#1074;&#1080;&#1090;&#1077;&#1079;&#1086;&#1074;&#1072; &#1051;&#1072;&#1079;&#1072;&#1088;&#1072; &#1080; &#1052;&#1080;&#1083;&#1086;&#1096;&#1072;!

&#1057;&#1074;&#1077; &#1076;&#1077;&#1083;&#1080;&#1112;&#1077; &#1086;&#1076; &#1057;&#1088;&#1073;&#1080;&#1112;&#1077;,
&#1057;&#1074;&#1072;&#1082;&#1086; &#1089;&#1088;&#1094;&#1077; &#1087;&#1086;&#1085;&#1086;&#1089;&#1085;&#1086;,
&#1050;&#1086;&#1112;&#1080; &#1113;&#1091;&#1073;&#1080; &#1079;&#1077;&#1084;&#1113;&#1091; &#1089;&#1074;&#1086;&#1112;&#1091;,
&#1043;&#1072;&#1079;&#1080;&#1084;&#1077;&#1089;&#1090;&#1072;&#1085;, &#1050;&#1086;&#1089;&#1086;&#1074;&#1086;.

&#1054;&#1112; &#1050;&#1086;&#1089;&#1086;&#1074;&#1086;, &#1050;&#1086;&#1089;&#1086;&#1074;&#1086;, &#1079;&#1077;&#1084;&#1113;&#1086; &#1084;&#1086;&#1112;&#1072; &#1074;&#1086;&#1113;&#1077;&#1085;&#1072;,
&#1047;&#1077;&#1084;&#1113;&#1086; &#1089;&#1083;&#1072;&#1074;&#1085;&#1080;&#1093; &#1074;&#1080;&#1090;&#1077;&#1079;&#1086;&#1074;&#1072; &#1051;&#1072;&#1079;&#1072;&#1088;&#1072; &#1080; &#1052;&#1080;&#1083;&#1086;&#1096;&#1072;!

&#1057;&#1088;&#1073;&#1072;&#1076;&#1080;&#1112;&#1072; &#1082;&#1083;&#1080;&#1095;&#1077; &#1094;&#1077;&#1083;&#1072;
&#1053;&#1077; &#1076;&#1072;&#1084;&#1086; &#1090;&#1077; &#1050;&#1086;&#1089;&#1086;&#1074;&#1086;!
&#1058;&#1086; &#1112;&#1077; &#1085;&#1072;&#1096;&#1077; &#1091;&#1074;&#1077;&#1082; &#1073;&#1080;&#1083;&#1086;,
&#1054;&#1076; &#1076;&#1072;&#1074;&#1085;&#1080;&#1085;&#1072; &#1086;&#1089;&#1090;&#1072;&#1083;&#1086;!

&#1054;&#1112; &#1050;&#1086;&#1089;&#1086;&#1074;&#1086;, &#1050;&#1086;&#1089;&#1086;&#1074;&#1086;, &#1079;&#1077;&#1084;&#1113;&#1086; &#1084;&#1086;&#1112;&#1072; &#1074;&#1086;&#1113;&#1077;&#1085;&#1072;,
&#1047;&#1077;&#1084;&#1113;&#1086; &#1089;&#1083;&#1072;&#1074;&#1085;&#1080;&#1093; &#1074;&#1080;&#1090;&#1077;&#1079;&#1086;&#1074;&#1072; &#1051;&#1072;&#1079;&#1072;&#1088;&#1072; &#1080; &#1052;&#1080;&#1083;&#1086;&#1096;&#1072;!

Translation:

The sun rises over Kosovo,
The light of the new day shines.
Gracanica, clothed in light,
Awaits Vidovdan.

O Kosovo, Kosovo, my beloved land!
Land of the glorious warriors, Lazar and Milosh.

Every brave man in Serbia,
Every proud heart,
All love their country,
Gazimestan, Kosovo.

O Kosovo, Kosovo, my beloved land!
Land of the glorious warriors, Lazar and Milosh.

Every Serb shouts:
“We will not give up Kosovo.”
We inherited it from our fathers,
It was always ours.

O Kosovo, Kosovo, my beloved land!
Land of the glorious warriors, Lazar and Milosh.
http://typiconman.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/o-kosovo-kosovo/

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#279892 - 02/23/08 02:11 PM Re: Kosovo's Independence In Days [Re: byzanTN]
Nan Offline
Member

Registered: 07/22/07
Posts: 163
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: byzanTN
I am afraid, though, that seeing the embassy burning on TV, will reinforce what many Americans already think about that part of Europe. That its inhabitants are backward and so prone to violence, they have to be restrained to keep them from killing each other. I have heard in classes, and also read that the only reason Yugoslavia lasted as long as it did, was because Tito was even more violent and vicious than his countrymen.


1. Any country whose population habitually responds to things they don't like with death threats, murders, rioting and looting, shouldn't expect their country to have credibility with the world at large. Please do not construe this comment to be limited to Serbia or the Muslim world.

Yes, rioting and looting occurs in many places after racially charged incidents and after sporting wins/losses and is amazingly stupid. It has occurred here on two recent occasions. Still stupid.

2. First time I went to Yugoslavia was the year after Tito died. At some point my parents/grandma wondered if it was safe to go because he was the only thing holding country together. We went. It was fine. Surprising they remained together next 10 years. They say he was called Tito because he would tell people what to do. Ti to (you, do this...).

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#279981 - 02/24/08 12:03 PM Re: Kosovo's Independence In Days [Re: Nan]
Orest Offline
Member

Registered: 09/08/06
Posts: 507
Loc: Canada
Here is the view from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada on the subject:
Quote:
http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=17d5e2cd-3718-49e5-bab0-96e6127e61e7&k=25630
EDMONTON JOURNAL (CANADA)
Letters
Saturday, February 23, 2008
Kosovo will undoubtedly become a dependant independent state recognized by a good number of the western worlds power brokers. The Albanian president is already predicting his nation along with Kosovo will join the EU at the same time. Bamir Topi's comments may be wishful thinking considering how many
nations have refused to recognize Kosovo as free from Serbia proper.
Listening to diplomats from the U.S., France, or Great Britain, or even the world's media, one could come to the conclusion that Kosovo is more than deserving of independence from Serbia. In reality, this is so far from the truth. Of all the independence movements around the world, Kosovo is probably the least qualified to join the group of free and democratic
nations. The media has done a poor job in presenting a balanced view of the region, and a good job at further demonizing the Serbs of the area. Albeit, the Serbian government has set the stage for the negative characterization of their people.

This being said, one rarely reads or hears about the ethnic cleansing that took place after the 1999 NATO bombing campaign. Since NATO peacekeepers arrived in Kosovo, more than 200,000 citizens of the area have been forced to flee. This total includes Serbs, Roma, Gorani, Bosnians, Turks, and other
minorities. The ethnic Albanian population, lead by the KLA, has made it policy to remove all non-Albanians. Pristina is the only ethnically cleansed capital in all of Europe.

How can the west have faith that the KLA-dominated Kosovo government will secure its remaining minority population when the KLA is known by European governments to have far reaching criminal activities? The KLA, which was on the U.S. terrorist list before they decided to arm and train them as proxy combatants in their battle against the milosevic regime,
is involved in heroin trafficking from Afghanistan, weapons smuggling, oil and cigarette smuggling, as well as human trafficking of prostitutes from Eastern Europe into western Europe. Kosovo's current leader (an ex-KLA fighter himself), founded and organized the Drenica-Group. The Drenica-Group
is a criminal organization that has ties with other organized crime rings throughout Europe and Albania. In fact, Thaci's sister is married to one of the most infamous leaders of the Albanian mafia.

The U.S. push for Kosovo independence is perplexing when removing the idea that this recognition will somehow appease the Muslim world. Considering the ramifications of past American meddling and support of shady political players(Bin Laden in Afghanistan), one would think the U.S. would have
learned by past failures when recognizing governments built on the avails of criminal and terrorist activity.

Dawid Hurowitz, Edmonton




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#280041 - 02/24/08 11:07 PM Re: Kosovo's Independence In Days [Re: Orest]
Orest Offline
Member

Registered: 09/08/06
Posts: 507
Loc: Canada
Here is another good article which people who live in multi-ethnic states can appreciate:

Quote:
Kosovo"s stark warning

By Caroline B. Glick

http://www.JewishWorldReview.com

Kosovo's US-backed declaration of independence is deeply troubling. By setting a precedent of legitimizing the secession of disaffected minorities, it weakens
the long-term viability of multi-ethnic states. In so doing, it destabilizes the
already stressed state-based international system.

States as diverse as Canada, Morocco, Spain, Georgia, Russia and China currently
suffer problems with politicized minorities. They are deeply concerned by the
Kosovo precedent. Even the US has latent sovereignty issues with its
increasingly politicized Hispanic minority along its border with Mexico. It may
one day experience a domestic backlash from its support for Kosovar independence
from Serbia.

Setting aside its global implications, it is hard to see how Kosovo constitutes
a viable state. Its forty percent unemployment is a function of the absence of
proper economic and governing infrastructures.

In November 2007, a European Commission report detailed the Kosovo Liberation
Army&#65533;s failure to build functioning governing apparatuses. The report noted that
&#65533;due to a lack of clear political will to fight corruption, and to insufficient
legislative and implementing measures, corruption is still widespread&#65533; Civil
servants are still vulnerable to political interference, corrupt practices and
nepotism.&#65533; Moreover, &#65533;Kosovo&#65533;s public administration remains weak and
inefficient.&#65533;

The report continued, &#65533;The composition of the government anti-corruption council
does not sufficiently guarantee its impartiality,&#65533; and &#65533;little progress can be
reported in the area of organized crime and combating of trafficking in human
beings.&#65533;

Additionally, the prosecution of Albanian war criminals is &#65533;hampered by the
unwillingness of the local population to testify&#65533; against them. This is in part
due to the fact that &#65533;there is still no specific legislation on witness
protection in place.&#65533;

The fledgling failed-state of Kosovo is a great boon for the global jihad. It is
true that Kosovar Muslims by and large do not subscribe to radical Islam. But it
is also true that they have allowed their territory to be used as bases for Al
Qaida operations; that members of the ruling KLA have direct links to al Qaida;
and that the Islamic world as a whole perceived Kosovo&#65533;s fight for independence
from Serbia as a jihad for Islamic domination of the disputed province.

According to a 2002 Wall Street Journal report, al Qaida began operating
actively in Kosovo, and the rest of the Balkans in 1992. Osama bin Laden visited
Albania in 1996 and 1997. He received a Bosnian passport from the Bosnian
embassy in Austria in 1993. Acting on bin Laden&#65533;s orders, in 1994 his deputy,
Ayman Zawahiri set up training bases throughout the Balkans including a training
center in Mitrovica, Kosovo. The Taliban and al Qaida set up drug trafficking
operations in Kosovo to finance their operations in Afghanistan and beyond.

In 2006, John Gizzi reported in Human Events that the German intelligence
service, BND confirmed that the 2005 bombings in Britain and the 2004 bombings
in Spain were organized in Kosovo. Furthermore, &#65533;the man at the center of the
provision of the explosives in both instances was an Albanian, operating mostly
out of Kosovo&#65533;who is second ranking leader of the Kosovo Liberation Army, Niam
Behzloulzi.&#65533;

Then too, at its 1998 meeting in Pakistan, the Organization of the Islamic
Conference declared that the Albanian separatists in Kosovo were fighting a
jihad. The OIC called on the Muslim world to help &#65533;this fight for freedom on the
occupied Muslim territories.&#65533;

Supporters of Kosovo claim that as victims of &#65533;genocide,&#65533; Kosovar Muslims
deserve independence. But if the Muslims in Kosovo have been targeted for
annihilation by the Serbs, then how is it that they have increased from 48
percent of the population in 1948 to 92 percent today? Indeed, Muslims comprised
only 78 percent of the population in 1991, the year before Yugoslavia broke
apart.

In recent years particularly, it is Kosovo&#65533;s Serbian Christians, not its
Albanian Muslims that are targeted for ethnic cleansing. Since 1999, two-thirds
of Kosovo&#65533;s Serbs &#65533; some 250,000 people &#65533; have fled the area.

The emergence of a potentially destabilizing state in Kosovo is clearly an
instance of political interests trumping law. Under international law, Kosovo
has no right to be considered a sovereign state. Even UN Security Council
Resolution 1244 from 1999, which the KLA claims provides the legal basis for Kosovar sovereignty explicitly recognizes Serbian sovereignty over Kosovo.


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#280277 - 02/26/08 11:08 AM Re: Kosovo's Independence In Days [Re: Orest]
Lawrence Offline
Member

Registered: 02/20/03
Posts: 2206
Loc: Illinois

Interesting article from Reuters http://africa.reuters.com/world/news/usnL26918399.html in which Kosovo's new de-facto leader, terrorist turned politician Hashim Thaci, warns Serbia that Kosovo's territorial integrity will not be compromised, and how he is in constant contact with NATO forces. As Christians, we are always obligated to pray for peace, however if eventually NATO forces are sent against the Christian Serb population in the NW corner of the province, then I thoroughly support Russia's right to defend them against NATO by any means necessary.

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#280292 - 02/26/08 12:47 PM Re: Kosovo's Independence In Days [Re: Lawrence]
Monomakh Offline
Member

Registered: 05/09/06
Posts: 492
Loc: just south of nowhere
I'm just about certain that the only time that NATO was called to duty was against Serbia, and of course Serbia and the so-called independence movement of Kosovo are not NATO memebers. So I'm pretty certain that the only time NATO was used was for a non NATO country. I would be interested if the NATO charter even calls for NATO to be used in this way?


Monomakh


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#280626 - 02/28/08 08:58 AM Re: Kosovo's Independence In Days [Re: Byzantophile]
A student Offline
Member

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 36
Loc: Virginia
This may be a step in the right direction .......
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-02-27-slavery_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

A student

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#280849 - 02/29/08 08:52 PM Re: Kosovo's Independence In Days [Re: A student]
Lawrence Offline
Member

Registered: 02/20/03
Posts: 2206
Loc: Illinois

Vladimir Putin continues to stick it to the EU http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2008/02/29/041.html Maybe Russian economic resources can peacefully tip the scale against the EU and NATO and change some minds about the future of Kosovo.

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#281823 - 03/07/08 03:24 PM Re: Kosovo's Independence In Days [Re: Lawrence]
ZAROVE Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/07
Posts: 427
Loc: Tennessee
Let us hope it is peaceful. Otherwise, war rears its ugly head.

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