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#280784 - 02/29/08 02:09 PM Ben Lomond and Liturgy
asianpilgrim Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/07
Posts: 1056
Loc: Philippines
Dear all;

After several months of looking for information, I noticed that a site on the Ben Lomond tragedy is online once again:

benlomond.wordpress.com

The site contains shocking accusations against the Antiochian hierarchy's handling of liturgical issues, and states in particular (in several places) that the Antiochian hierarchy wants shortened services and is against daily services! Given my own interest in the restoration and / or maintenance of daily liturgical services, this was a rather shocking accusation indeed, and I hope it does not represent the thinking of American Orthodoxy.

Since liturgical issues were at the heart of this issue, I'm putting it in the "Faith and Worship" section

Since these sentiments are hardly what one would expect from bishops, I'd like to know if there are others here who could shed more light on the issue. What is the Antiochian side's say to all of this? Just asking!

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#280788 - 02/29/08 02:47 PM Re: Ben Lomond and Liturgy [Re: asianpilgrim]
Diak Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 7168
Loc: Kansas/UGCC
If you want the story from someone who was in the midst of it, and who now does not belong to either jurisdiction, contact Fr. David Anderson of the Eparchy of St. Nicholas (UGCC) who serves the mission of St. Peter in Ukiah, California.

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#280794 - 02/29/08 03:01 PM Re: Ben Lomond and Liturgy [Re: Diak]
Prester John Offline
Member

Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 218
Loc: USA
Sadly, I know from a direct source just how badly this whole thing was handled.

From what I can tell, this site and its version of events is not inaccurate.

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#280798 - 02/29/08 03:26 PM Re: Ben Lomond and Liturgy [Re: asianpilgrim]
A Simple Sinner Offline
Member

Registered: 04/18/07
Posts: 1133
Loc: Ohio
AP -

I wouldn't be too quick to take the Ben Lomond incident as being indicative one way or another of a total attitude toward liturgy. There was far more at play there than just the congregation taking "too much liturgy". Having said that, I am otherwise hesitant to offer any real conclusive thinking on what happened there because (1) I wasn't there and (2) the full story and what actually happened there is known to only a few people - if even anyone can be said to know all the details. Frankly, I don't even think any one involved party could be said to have a full understanding of what both (all) sides were about.

From there I Would be really hesitant to rely solely on that website which I am familiar with. It was definately written from one perspective (and I am no insisder, AT ALL, I can offer no suggestion personally on the veracity of the claims made, and wouldn't presume to try as I am, again, in no way intimate with the situation.)

All I can really offer is my sadness about whatever exactly happened, happening. I still have the CDs they produced over a decade ago that I listened to often. Actually, they are downloaded into my harddrive jukebox and you have inspired me to give them some play time today with this mention of them!

What I will say positively about them was that I knew several Greek Catholic priests who visited Ss. Peter & Paul and all of them - to the man - had positive things to say about the enthusiasm they witnessed and the warm reception they recieved there. One priest I recall noted "Some places won't shake your hand if they find out you are Greek Catholic - at Ss. Peter & Paul they hugged you and invited you to pray with them."

It was a special, heady, and exciting time for many folks (myself included) who were hoping that Ben Lomond was on the forefront of a great movement of Evangelicals into the East.

I can't speak for any party on this one, but I can say that this painful episode isn't something that most appear to be interested in really exploring, so I don't know how much "Official Antiochian response" you would be able to find...

Again, this internal matter - with all the "rest of the story" that we aren't privy to - isn't something I would look to in an effort to find representitive sample of "Orthodox attitudes"... It was a unique situation altogether.

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#280808 - 02/29/08 04:47 PM Re: Ben Lomond and Liturgy [Re: A Simple Sinner]
Father Deacon Ed Offline

Administrator
Member

Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 638
Loc: California
The story of Ben Lomond is pretty complex, and way beyond what is mentioned in the site that is mentioned above. From a personal standpoint, every time I've been to the church in Ben Lomond no one has been there (except a gardener, and he really was a gardener).

Fr. Deacon Ed

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#280878 - 03/01/08 03:28 AM Re: Ben Lomond and Liturgy [Re: A Simple Sinner]
asianpilgrim Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/07
Posts: 1056
Loc: Philippines
Originally Posted By: A Simple Sinner
All I can really offer is my sadness about whatever exactly happened, happening. I still have the CDs they produced over a decade ago that I listened to often. Actually, they are downloaded into my harddrive jukebox and you have inspired me to give them some play time today with this mention of them!


Actually, the Ben Lomond community has been resurrected -- albeit on a smaller scale, and with very frequent services but not the daily Matins-DL-Vespers cycle of yesteryear -- as the St. Lawrence Orthodox Christian Church under the Patriarchate of Jerusalem

www.slocc.com

They also have an academy, and they have resumed producing CDs of sacred music:

http://www.slocc.com/music/index.html

http://www.hearkenaudio.com/photos.php

I wish them well. We need all the "model liturigical parishes" we can get.

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#280879 - 03/01/08 03:31 AM Re: Ben Lomond and Liturgy [Re: asianpilgrim]
asianpilgrim Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/07
Posts: 1056
Loc: Philippines
I notice that "PSALM" (Pan-Orthodox Society for the Advancement of Liturgical Music) was founded by the two choir directors (both female) of SLOCC.

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#281104 - 03/02/08 09:08 PM Re: Ben Lomond and Liturgy [Re: asianpilgrim]
Xpycoctomos Offline
Member

Registered: 06/13/05
Posts: 86
Loc: Midwest
wait, wait... I happen to know a friend who goes there (was not there when it all went down) and it seems to me that the Church is still very much alive. WHy is it being spoken of as if it's dead?

And the bigger question it would seem to me: Can't we just let the past be the past and leave it alone. I understand that for many this can be very interesting and I do say that it was heart wrenching for me to find out about Fr David's leaving the Orthodox CHurch (although I'm not judging him) as he played a humoungous part in my becoming Orthodox. But as someelse here already said, the story is very complex. The Ben Lomond issue was indeed very complicated and I highly doubt that anyone here or any site truly gives the full grasp of events. From anything I ahve heard or read it seems that all sides are to blame, but in the end, the Church spoke, some listened, some didn't and now things are as they are.

So, shall we leave Fr David alone? Shall we leave the parishoners who went their many different ways (Stayed, went Eastern Catholic, went to a new jurisdiction, went back to their protestant Churches, created and/or went on to schismatic communities) to be and find their salvation? This is happened a very long time ago and the last thing we need to do is bring back to the pain or egg on someone's personal obsession with the incident.

All I can say is that Ben Lomand is very much alive. Obviously it is surely smaller and is no longer the Superstar Parish it once was... but perhaps such is not really a wonderful goal after all. I personally love my parish and I bet no one on this board has ever heard of it... I rather prefer that personally.

Xpy

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#281114 - 03/03/08 12:45 AM Re: Ben Lomond and Liturgy [Re: Xpycoctomos]
Halia12 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 267
Loc: Canada
This article seems to be an outline of the controversy:
Quote:

The Ben Lomond Crisis was the result of a parish, formerly in the Evangelical Orthodox Church and then within the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America, that split.

Timeline
1996 Sep: Sts Peter and Paul Parish ran into difficulties with Bp Joseph. Bp Joseph expressed his desire to reduce the number of clergy at that parish (29 at the time), through transfers and laicisations, to a number more in keeping with standard practise.
Fr John Hardenbrook, during this period, was removed from his position as Dean of the Northern California Deanery at this period. This was seen as retribution for the Phyletism or Freedom!" article written in the parish newsletter, which declared the parish's right to choose from amongst various Orthodox musical traditions and liturgic practises.
1997 May: Bp Joseph issues directive that all formerly-EOC parishes (which included Ben Lomond) are to use the official Archdiocesan service books and the Archdiocesan music within two years, rather than music from many and varied sources.
The parish responded badly to this directive, which compounded the reaction from the first directive. A minority accused the dissenters of disloyalty to the bishops.
A common practise at Ben Lomond was to seek spiritual direction, often from members of other Orthodox jurisdictions. In some cases, these directors were advising to defy the bishops. A directive is also issued that asked clergy and laity to avoid placing themselves under spiritual directors who were not a part of the Antiochian Archdiocese.
Sep: Truce called.
1998 Feb 6: Fr David Anderson was issued a transfer to Chicago. This was seen as an attack on parish life, as Fr David was one of the most popular priests in the parish; it was also seen as cold, due to Fr David caring, with the help of parisioners, for his invalid mother at the time. After the rejection of an appeal, Fr David applied for a release to the OCA.
12: A letter was sent from a number of clergy of the parish, signed by 10 priests (out of 12) and 11 deacons (of 17), outlining the problems had with the hierarchy by the parish and why they lost their trust in the hierarchy. It asked for a release to the OCA. A petition was sent from the laity, with 60% of the laity signing their support for the clergy's letter.
Metropolitan Philip responded with the laicisation of John Hardenbrook and David Anderson and suspending the remaining clergy and ordering one of the non-signatory priests to change the locks on the church. [1]
The clergy and laity at odds with the Archdiocese began to attend St Nicholas Orthodox Church (OCA) in Saratoga, and petitioned to be entered into the OCA. St Nicholas Church begins an extra Sunday service to accomodate the sudden rise (approx. 300) in parisioners. The Ben Lomond group continued to regard themselves as a separate community, and was unresponsive to requests to fill out membership forms and otherwise become a part of St Nicholas, which provoked a letter from Bp Tikhon ordering that all must worship in the same Liturgy.
1998 Aug 20: Having sued the Ben Lomond Parish Corporation for the property and assets of the parish, the Archdiocese was awarded both, which resulted in the closure of the parochial school (running for seven years).
1999 Feb: Having been made clear that the OCA would not accept the suspended clergy, the parish sought ministrations from the Jerusalem Patriarchate, who began to serve at a chapel in Felton. Two priests from the original community have since been ordained, who serve the community at St Lawrence's Church and it's parochial school.
The suspended clergy remain in canonical limbo, being unreleased from the Antiochian Archdiocese.
External links
Lucas, P.C., 2003, "Enfants Terribles: The Challenge of Sectarian Converts to Ethnic Orthodox Churches in the United States", in Nova Religio, Vol. 7, No. 2, November 2003. (password protected)
Metr. Philip Saliba, Archpastoral Directive, issued Feb 14, 1998 to Sts Peter and Paul Orthodox Church, Ben Lomond, California.
http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/Ben_Lomond_Crisis


Has anyone read this article:
Lucas, P.C., 2003, "Enfants Terribles: The Challenge of Sectarian Converts to Ethnic Orthodox Churches in the United States", in Nova Religio, Vol. 7, No. 2, November 2003. (password protected)
I would like to know if it is a scholarly objective article.

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#281138 - 03/03/08 06:55 AM Re: Ben Lomond and Liturgy [Re: Halia12]
Three Cents Offline
Member

Registered: 11/22/01
Posts: 287
Loc: Saratoga Springs, New York
Christ Is Among Us!

The Ben Lomond situation was very complex and discussion here cannot do it justice.

However, there were accusations of unfilled accounts from Conciliar Press where the proceeds for orders no longer existed. It is also perhaps stated by some that His Eminence Saidna Philip instructed the staff to fill all the orders that had been paid for at the expense of the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese (after the staff was again in control of Conciliar Press).

If this be true, than "Ye shall know them by their fruits." (Mt. 7:16 KJV)

Just my absolutely worthless ... Three Cents.

Indeed He Is And Ever Shall Be!

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#281143 - 03/03/08 07:34 AM Re: Ben Lomond and Liturgy [Re: Three Cents]
Collin Nunis Offline
Member

Registered: 07/27/07
Posts: 601
Loc: Perth, Australia
Hmmm... You know, I once recieved some literature about the Convergence movement in the U.S. and funnily, the AEOM was featured, with a Fr. Terry Somerville pictured and mentioned. I've read the Ben Lomond blog and it is mentioned that he passed on in 1998. However, there is a website called "Total Change Ministries" of which he is the head. Could there be some confusion?

http://totalchange.org.

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#281166 - 03/03/08 11:20 AM Re: Ben Lomond and Liturgy [Re: Collin Nunis]
Prester John Offline
Member

Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 218
Loc: USA
Different guy.

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#281168 - 03/03/08 11:29 AM Re: Ben Lomond and Liturgy [Re: Prester John]
Halia12 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 267
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Actually, the Ben Lomond community has been resurrected -- albeit on a smaller scale, and with very frequent services but not the daily Matins-DL-Vespers cycle of yesteryear -- as the St. Lawrence Orthodox Christian Church under the Patriarchate of Jerusalem

Are they under the canonical Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Jesusalem? The web site listed on the page:
http://www.jerusalem-patriarchate.org/

takes you to a ad site for Jerusalem including real estate.

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#281172 - 03/03/08 11:59 AM Re: Ben Lomond and Liturgy [Re: Halia12]
asianpilgrim Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/07
Posts: 1056
Loc: Philippines
Yes, they are under the Patriarchate of Jerusalem, under Patriarch Theophilos

http://jerusalemusa.org/directory.htm

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#281173 - 03/03/08 12:14 PM Re: Ben Lomond and Liturgy [Re: asianpilgrim]
Collin Nunis Offline
Member

Registered: 07/27/07
Posts: 601
Loc: Perth, Australia
the Jerusalem Patriarchate site was supposed to http://www.gopoj.org. LOL. Real estate.

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