Does anyone have an authoritative source for the oft-heard quote from the Orthodox that "It's not the pope we fear but the pope's helpers." I've heard, used, and quoted this for years, without ever knowing where it came from. Prof. Google has not come up with anything. If anyone has a source for this, with bibliographic information if at all possible, I should be most grateful.

Thanks!

ADAM:

Disclaimer: No authoritative source here.

Aren't the Pope's "helpers" all those bureaucrats in the Curia?

Wasn't Cardinal Humbert a "helper"? (I am not digging into an old wound and don't want to start the next argument about the tragedy that is our separation from each other.) NEED A "TONGUE IN CHEEK" EMOTICON!!

And the poor Holy Father. How do you keep tabs on a big group of bureaucrats, er, "helpers"?

BOB

In particular, the Sacred Congregation for the Eastern Churches.

There may be some very good reasons for maintaining such an office, but its current operational philosophy still treats the ECCs as subordinate churches, which is not a position the EOCs would accept if they were to reunite.

It would make sense for the ECCs to establish a position for themselves that would be acceptable to the EOCs. (Are we not, after all, "Orthodox in Communion with Rome?") That would be a major step towards realizing reunion.


Peace,
Deacon Richard

C. I. X.

There is also a story which I have heard numerous times but never found it in print. The clerics of Rome approached Pope Pius saying the Communists in Italy were turning the people from God. After pondering the information the pope replied if his priests haven’t turned the people from the Lord they didn’t have a chance.

LOL! Popes be so clever.

Alexis

I am reminded of a question addressed to Blessed Pope John XXIII,

"How many people work for you in the Vatican?"

The Holy Father's answer:

"About half."

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence! :p

Peace and God bless!

Father Deacon Richard,

I don't know how widespread it is, but I have noticed that in the UGCC, the prayer for "Orthodox Christians" in the Divine Liturgy seems to be used more often than previously.

Since Constantinople is the Mother Church of the Church of Kyiv, perhaps a next step could be to begin to remember the Ecumenical Patriarch / Archbishop of Constaninople in the Divine Liturgy.

I've always wondered at the choice of "true faith" versus "Orthodox Christians" in the DL. It seems semantics to me.

C. I. X.
As we commemorate the Bishop of Rome anyway, why not the other four Ecumenical Patriarchs as was standard operating procedure in the first millennium? With the addition of our own local “Major Archbishop”, for lack of recognition of a better term.

C. I. X.
Is it semantics or a question of upper or lower case usage?

The Eastern Churches would be well advised to not walk down the road of "de-evolving" their liturgies. Look at the disasterous effect it has had in the Western Church. The liturgy should evolve naturally, not be constructed. We hear all the time: "but that was the way it was done in the early Church". To which any good student of liturgy should point out that, "if you want to go back to 'the early Church' we would also need to bring back sitting in sackcloth and ashes and other types of physical mortifications." Which usually makes people re-think this idea. As well, "the days of 'the early Church' were also the times that Christianity was being persecuted and was in hiding. We shouldn't have to do things that way anymore. God deserves our best."

Sadly, since the 1960s, many Latin Catholics have been infected with the idea that nothing is too cheap for God.

C. I. X.

Byzantophile,

OK, though...

History repeats. We build on what we know. It must be organic not orchestrated. So if we don't know our history we will to repeat it...

Despite the wit that should come with age, we are weekly brow beated with "We are only doing what Peter (Pope) asked, to return to our roots..."

Can anyone tell us when or what these roots are, besides the orthodox answer "Christ"?

Which of the other multiple Patriarchs should be commemorate? IT seems this could add an hour or more to the Divine Liturgy.

"The Holy Fathers of our Church, the Pope of Rome (name), the Patriarch of Constantinople (name), PopeS of Alexandria (name, name, name) the PatriarchS of Antioch (name, name, name, name, name), the PatriarchS of Jerusalem (name, name, name, name, name), Catholicoi and Major Archbishops (name, name, name, name, name)...etc".. we haven't even gotten to the local bishops yet.

C. I. X.

Michael Thoma

The ecumenical 5 can become 15, then your own and the locals... I see your point, the Eastern or Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem? Maybe we can just skip their names and hide behind their titles. Hiding ones heads in the sand... How profound!

But the real question is when was this historical church of ours we are told we must now embrace? If we figure when it was, will it change who we are? Will we have to give up our air conditioners, and depending on the history of that time may we be commemorating Avignon?