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You have accapted the teachings of the Orthodox Chruch, but have you accepted the SPIRIT of Orthodoxy as well?

To live an Orthox life means more than just keeping an Orthodox Confession of faith...

Christian

Dear brother in Christ, Nektarios,

I ask your forgiveness if I have offended you with those words.

There is much beauty and grace in traditional and patristic Orthodoxy, as offered in the profound spirituality of ROCOR. I can see why it is so enticing.

The only thing I lament about them is their narrow minded outlook which seems to create a hard and unloving heart. This common denominator of condemning the 'other' (Christian) seems to be more of a unifying factor for the more traditionalist/fundamentalist Orthodox Christian than the love for Christ. Is this the bond for acceptance, or is one allowed a different point of view and different feeling? If yes, then fine. If not, that is what can be construed as a
'cult'...

When one truly feels in God's grace, as one should through the sacraments and spirituality of Orthodoxy, ROCOR or otherwise, one feels a great sense of 'agape' (Christian love) for one's brothers and sisters. If one is not feeling this, or if one is being preached anything contrary to love and the other beautiful fruits of the Holy Spirit, then in my humble opinion, something is very wrong.

This is what scares me about the attraction of ROCOR and schismatic Orthodox offshoots.

Ofcourse this is not exclusive to ROCOR, or even to Orthodoxy. I have met Pentecostal Christians whose outlook and hearts also make me shudder.

The spirituality of Holy Russia is exemplary. Thank God for the canonical OCA which espouses the beauty of it without adding the spice of hatred and gross intolerance.

Just my thoughts...

Again, forgive me if I offended you with my hasty, epithet like words. Likewise, I would implore you not to use any hasty epithets with or about my very good and holy Catholic friends on this site. 'Do unto others'.....

God bless you, and may St. Nektarios, the Wonderworker, guardian of Aegina and offspring of Selyvria, the true friend of virtue who appeared in the last days....watch over you and guide you always,

With the love of Christ for you and for all,
Alice

Dear Anthony,

Ah yes, being friends with those who consider you to be heretical . . .

Most of my Orthodox friends and acquaintances believe me to be either: a) Orthodox in spirit, with more prodding needed to become fully so or b) a well-meaning heretic . . .

One priest, a former heretic himself (did I say "heretic?" I meant to say Protestant ), became Orthodox in the OCA and he even presented me to his bishop at his ordination as the "one who brought me to Orthodoxy."

He ends every conversation, or most, with me by saying, "Alex, let me know when you're ready to become Orthodox and I'd be proud to be the one to personally receive you . . ."

He doesn't like it when I tell him I"m already Orthodox!

Everything I know about such provocative issues I've learned from the Administrator here!

"Lord Jesus, may Your Will be done in the life of our Daniel/Nektarios. May the Prophet Daniel and St Nektarios of Aegina intercede for him always!"

Alex

Joe,

Yes. But that is fine, useful in fact. As far as I can tell this group is not in communion with anyone. If that is incorrect or if anyone has any other information I would appreciate it.

Tony

Can we not bash ROCOR for Nektarios's lack of charity?

Bear in mind, he is Antiochian Orthodox, NOT ROCOR.

Most of those I know in ROCOR do not display this attitude, at all, and are traditional, but display much love for others.


Gaudior, saying don't blame the jurisdiction for someone who isn't even in it!

You make it sound like I hate every body but Orthodox Christians, give me a break. I dont hate indiviudals I hate heresy.

In Christ
Nektarios

Because you are NOT! You are not an Eastern Orthodox Christian. I was a former Byzantine Catholic. Byzantine Catholics are NOT "Orthodox In Communion with Rome" I was once what you are now, and you are not Orthodox. The Pope could rid the Eastern Rites of there Eastern Idenity if he wanted, you are Catholics in subjection to Rome, I hate to sound Harsh and "unchariatble" as I have heard over and over, but this is facts. Sorry to sound like that but it irritates me when people claim to be some thing there not. Esepcially claim to be Orthodox when they are not.

In Christ
Nektarios

Nektarios,

I am very puzzled about something. Why do you post here? If we Uniates are so bad, why bother? If you are trying to convert us to your vision of Orthodoxy, you are going about it all wrong. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. I read your posts here and on that "other" site...you seem to have a fixation with Eastern Catholicism that borders on an obsession. Like maybe there is some guilt about abandoning us, so you have to prove to the world how "orthodox" and "Orthodox" you are. IMHO you need to focus more on your own internal spiritual growth before you start preaching to we lowly Uniates about orthodoxy.

Don

Dear Nektarios,

When you were a Byzantine Catholic, if an Orthodox Christian had repeatedly responded to you as if you were an irrelevance to be blotted out as fast as possible, and answered your questions as rudely and unkindly as you respond to others, what would your response have been?

Human nature being what it is, I am betting you would have dug your heels in and become Super Byzantine Catholic! Hated everything Orthodox, in fact. And would not now be Orthodox.

So how is your attitude convincing others that Orthodoxy is a relflection of Christ's love?

If you want to "hate heresy", go be sure you understand that the greatest heresy is to place yourself above Christ, in pointing to others and declaring those whom you do not even KNOW to be graceless heretics, beyond the reach of salvation. Christ himself ate with sinners, and by His love, and His example, they learned the Truth. He did NOT call them graceless, and condemn them...oh wait! He did...the PHARISEES...the ultra LEGALISTS WITH NO LOVE....

You can observe all the law, all the fasts, all the prayers...but if the Spirit of Christ isn't there, it will not help you.

And it is USELESS for you to argue that the the Holy Spirit IS with you, as unilaterally, you are giving all on this board a great deal of disgust for your views. That, by the way, includes the traditionalists here. So, how can it be, that you are in the right, Nektarios, if traditional Orthodox are apologizing for you, Roman Catholics are saying "IS THIS ORTHODOX?" and Byzantine Catholics are horrified that you have been led so far from the happy kid you were. As a Traditional Orthodox...I really MUST say, THIS IS NOT TRADITIONAL ORTHODOXY YOU ARE EXEMPLIFYING. NO MONASTICS I HAVE ENCOUNTERED SPEW THIS NONSENSE, AT ANY MONASTERY I HAVE STAYED IN. All are loving, and show Christ's light. Only the truly uninformed vagante sects who practice some form of sola canonica...interpret your own...do this.

This is not wise, child. You are driving others away from the Church. Ask yourself why.

Gaudior, ending this rant

Because I have been here for so long, look how many post i have.

No I am not trying to convert any one to "My vision of Orthodoxy" what ever that is supposed to mean.

Being a former Byzantine Catholic myself, I still do have intrest in byzantine catholicism, seeing how my mom also is still one. Now border on obsession? Yeah right.

I never looked back once during my conversion to Orthodoxy in my time as a Catechumen. I didnt hesitate for a seconed when it came time to renounce the Roman Church and its heresys during the baptismal liturgy.


I didnt realize I was giving a homily on this post? :rolleyes:

In Christ
Nektarios

It is interesting to see the difference between Ghazar's transfer to Orthodoxy, and Daniel/Nektarios' transfer. Ghazar has become less condemning. I can see the peace of Christ which knows no comprehension truly at work in him. Daniel, on the other hand ....

Perhaps it is simply youth - if not in physical age, then simply being a babe in his newfound faith.

Blessings,

Marduk

This in response to parts of this thread not necessarily the most recent post...

It is the anger herein that turns heads away from this site and personally turns my stomach. Sure I'm a lurker - I don't have hundreds of posts to my credit, but can anyone blame me? And besides, what do a large number of posts prove if they are made up of hate and anger towards other posters? Post and get blasted, that's Christian (be it Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant or Other)!

Nektarios' posts are blasts against Eastern Catholics on an Eastern Catholic website. Hmm... that is, at best, curious. Nektarios, allow me to state the same question again (especially since your previous attempts at answering skirt anything which might remotely resemble an answer) � WHY ARE YOU HERE??? Your disdain for Eastern Catholics of any sort is beyond obvious, you have no interest in converting us wrong believers, what is your intention? In clear, concise, direct terms please. Administrator � it is obvious your slaps on the wrist have done nothing to temper his constant flame against those of us who are members of a church which is associated - at least by reference (byzcath.org) - with this website. Is there nothing that can be done to stop the hatred?

I agree, e-mail (and thus posting) does not allow the reader to truly understand one�s intended tone, inflection, attempt at humor and so on, but instead of writing off the cuff responses that enflame other members try taking a moment and re-reading your post prior to submitting them. If there is any possible misinterpretation in your writing take the time to re-compose. What�s the rush to get something on the board? Look at how often and at what times people (the occasional and the regular posters) visit and post messages. Everyone seems to be here at any and all hours of the day and night, seven days a week, 52 weeks a year. Everyone is always in such a hurry these days. It might seem as if the focus has become one where everyone�s point must not only be heard but professed and accepted by all others. Quoting scripture, writings of the ascetics or anything else proves nothing more than the fact that you can read and in some cases copy word for word � the Christian Fundamentalists have been doing this to their Bible for years in the Bible Belt � does this mean they�re right in all of their interpretations and that since they have stated that in their interpretation A = 1 all who hear such must agree? Continually scold and never encourage or only encourage and never scold � both are the extremes and neither tends to work in any application.

I see folks posting criticisms of Nektarios� post who in other threads have been equally guilty of offending others but somehow make it all better by signing off with phrases like �unworthy servant� or �yours in Christ.� Such hypocrisy! I lived in Washington DC for years and whenever certain government workers who I had to encounter quite regularly wanted to �flip� someone off they would always throw in �have a blessful [sic] day.�

Is there really such need for so many posters to this board to constantly wish each other a �blessful day?�

Looking forward to each and every one of your blasts.

Glory to Jesus Christ!

I am also quite dismayed that this forum degenerates more often than not into useless polemic, and this is the reason I do not frequent it too much anymore. Arguments go on for cyber-page after cyber-page, and then we finally stop and think to ourselves, "What was the question?"....

But in any event, the one thought that I can contribute is that we, as Catholics, and even as Byzantine Catholics, are NOT Orthodox, in communion or out of communion with Rome. Orthodoxy is an ecclesial reality that we simply do not share, and that is both a good and a bad thing depending on what side of the bed you woke up on this morning. The main difference is that, when we Catholics conceive of the Church, we think big; very, very big. We can conceive of the Church on a large scale because we are part of an ecclesial reality that is almost ubiquitous.

On Ascension Thursday, I spoke to an Orthodox priest who is a convert from Catholicism. I posed to him an idea that I thought would be controversial for him: The Orthodox Church is happy about being small, and afraid of growing. Instead of arguing the point, he agreed with me. So for me, this is the real key to the reform of Orthodoxy: be comfortable with the idea of a BIG church, a church that evangelizes and extends beyond ethnic and cultural borders. Schmemann said that Orthodoxy is the worlds best kept secret. The key is, it is STILL a secret....

We Eastern Catholics do not have this problem, at least not in the same way. Our problem is how we can BE Byzantine and at the same time be in communion with an ecclesial reality that has a radically different liturgical, spiritual, and theological praxis. How can WE have long, elaborate services, fasts, and iconography, when the Latin parish down the road (which we are supposedly in communion with) has a half-hour Mass, no fasting, and more often than not ambiguous theological opinions on key matters of faith and morals?
More often than not, members of our Church cling to "Catholicity" (the praxis of the Latin Church), because it is easier and less confusing. Thus, our problem is to make the communion work without being swallowed up by the Latin ecclesial consciousness. Evangelization by us would create serious problems, since if we accentuate too much the differences, we might inadvertently send a message to the Latin Church of being holier-than-thou.(Example: A Latin Catholic might ask: "Why do all of you fast so long before going to Communion, while for us, we only have to fast for an hour?") This is a different problem than our Orthodox brethren have. It is a different ecclesial reality, and we cannot pretend it is the same thing. I am not Orthodox ("big O" sense) in any sense of the word because I do not share their plight, I have my own.

Arturo

Perhaps if we all practiced a little restraint and did not respond in kind it would help. Again, Nectarius is what? 18 or 19? Do you remember what you were doing at that age? I do, and I dare say he is in a better place than I was! I mean, I was a hard left revolutionary minoring in psychedelics!
A soft answer turneth away wrath, and we should pray for his continued growth, affirming his zeal for truth. And let us pray he doesn't get stuck in an ugly place. In all probability life will take its usual course and through the normal disillusionments and let-downs he will grow in charity and truth...

Dear Nektarios,
Alice's post at the top of the third page of this thread,(5/25 8:28AM), is one that you, and all who are reading this thread, should read, re-read, and take to heart. It is quite eloquent.
Alice will win souls for Orthodoxy, where you will make them turn and run from it.
I have personal experience with this. In my quest to learn more about the Orthodox faith, one of the first places I found was Holy Transfiguration Monastery,(today HOCNA, back then ROCOR). I corresponded briefly with a monk there who was a RC convert to Orthodoxy. To make a long story short, from the beginning, in a very nice way, he was trying to convince me of how right he was and how wrong I am. In the end, when he realized I wasn't going to succumb to his version of "right belief", I received a packet full of literature from him, that to me, bordered on hate mail. I never responded to it and that was the end of it. The way you come across in these posts is the same.