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Joined: Feb 2007
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ZAROVE Offline OP
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As ever, I am bringing an issue from another baord here. I apologise, but it is a topic I woudl liek to discuss if I may.


It invovled Islam, and, more accuratley, my views on Isalam, which soem say renders me non-Christian, or at leats htat I reject the Christian view on the subject.


Itis popular in some circles to claim Islam follows a different god than we as Christians do. This is most promenantly the veiw held by Evangelcials and Pentacostals but some Traditional Cahtolics and Protestants I know share this as well, as do some other varieteis of CHristian.


To them, it is obvious that "Allah" is not he same God. (DIspite the fact that Allah means The Gdo in Arabic, they tend tomake it a pouitn ti make Allah a name, and this name the name of a false god.)

Many even ascribe to the discredited moon god theory of Robert Morey.


However, then I note that Islam is an Abrahamic faith, and the Koran is clealry retelling Biblical events and poitns otthe HGod of Abraham, even if its accoutns are often revised and altered to reflect the Agenda of Muhammad, and that this is evidence that it is the same God, I am told how I am allowing for Idolatry, am a religiosu relitivist, and am making the devil equel to God.


O ocurse, my actual views ar elost int he shuffle, and although I beelive ISlam follows the ame God we do, as with the Jews they have soem mistaken notiosn about God, and Muhammad was a false Prophet.

This siad, and notign that I think much in Islam is error, I woudl not class it apart from the Heresies of old, and I do not think that Arius or Montanus where ever accused of worhsipping a diffeent god, dispite the fact thatthey clealry held to Heretical views in regars to God.

Of course the usual line of Logical evidence is given me to shwo that it si a diffwrent god, evidence that clalryshwos its a different god but somehow doens't apply to the Jews. Evidence like the god in ISlam has no son, and is not a Trinity. The JEws, I am told, are still Gods chosenpeple and still wrhsip the same God we do, and yet anyone who dneies the Tirnity, and Jesus as God , is automaticlaly not worhsippignt he ame God as we.

It seems a special excemption is made for the JEws in this regard,a nd I fear that such is an uneven balance which is an abominaiton to the Lord.

Still, the Jews, dispite rejeciton fo Jesus, and rejection fo the Trinity, worhsip the same God as we.

Musliosm do not worhsp the same God as we, because they reject Jesus as Gods son and reject the Trinity. At elats Muslims accept him as the Messiah.

( Of coruse Ive been told recently that Muslims don't accept him as the Messiah, by one of those who says its a difeent god, but their evidence for this si that the Koran says that Jesus is not God. The Christian notion that the Messiah is God is not the same as the Muslim conception of the Messiah, but htey seem to think that to reject Jeuss as God incarnate or Gods son is the same as rejectign him as the Messiah, and cant get their head aroudn it not beign the same.)

I wonder often why this is the case, that they go outof their way to say Islam worhsips a different god, while accetign the onenes pentacostals, Jews, and oher such as worhsipign the same.

I also wonder hy sayign that Muslism worhsip the same God as we, even though they are wrogn abotu God, is somehow seen as proing I am not a true CHristian or hold ot Heretical beelifs.


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Zarove,

We Christians believe in Jesus Christ, the Incarnate Word, and the true Son of the Father. The fact that God chose to empty Himself and take on our flesh, is something "new" in all history, not expected by the Jews, and ignored or denied today by many people. But the God who did that is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and he, in Jesus, has told us that this is so, and that it is the fulfillment of all the Law and the Prophets.

That, I think, reflects the reason why we Christians acknowledge that we do worship the same God as the Jews -- although we believe God has done this "new thing" and they don't, yet it is the action of that same God about which we differ.

God is the source of reason and order in His Creation: that also is something that Christians and Jews would readily acknowledge.

Cardinal Ratzinger makes a very interesting point in one of his essays, dealing with the idea of koinonia/communion, when he notes that the Septuagint never uses the word koinonia to describe the relationship between God and man: it uses the the word covenant, and this is primarily because to have "communion" implies a certain "equality" between the parties. But the New Testament, based on Our Lord's very Incarnation, tells us in many places that in Christ we have communion with God and with each other, because in Christ we have become adopted sons of God, and that is the basis for the "equality" (if I may speak that way).

This is also why Christianity is not a religion "of the Book": it is a religion "of the Person" of Jesus Christ.

My sense of Muhammed is that he learned about Christianity by being either a) the bad pupil of an orthodox Christian, or b) the good pupil of an Arian (as St. John Damascene wrote), or Gnostic. In any case, his "reinterpretation" of both the Old and the New Testament deals with the same God as we believe in, but not according to the same "hermeneutic key". As an example, perhaps, is his veneration (and that of many Muslims) for the Virgin Mother of Jesus, along with the denial of Christ's divinity -- Arianism denied Christ's divinity. So they don't believe in the same God as we do formally, even if it is to Him that they direct their worship.

Their view would seem to place God at such a distance from man that not only is "communion" precluded, but so also "covenant". A very distant God indeed. And thus, practically incomprehensible.

I further believe that because it is not a divinely inspired religion -- how could it be if "in these last days God has spoken through a Son" (Hebrews)?) it lacks not only a Magisterium, but even a Tradition, such that there are very many different ways of understanding Islam even among its practitioners. And yet I do think that some Muslims can get an insight into the Will of God, probably (although this is way above my pay grade!) because the Holy Spirit can use those elements of the Muslim religion which are based on His Revelation to bring them to discern truth from falsehood, and good from evil.

Best regards,
Michael

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ZAROVE Offline OP
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WELL, I never claiemd, in any debate I ever had on eh topic, that Islam was correc tin its teachings, but Islamis not any more wrong than Montanus and his follwoers where.

I simply reject the notion that its a different god totally, and note that the religion of Islam obviously sprang fromt he Christian and Jewish soruces known to Muhammad, and that it is rooted in Arian theology.

I do nto think the Koran is Divinely inspired and beeliv emuch of the revision from the Biblical narratives was due to Muhammads own needs, both personally and socially.


But, sayign it is a man-made religion, founded by a false Prophet, doens't mean its object of worhsip is some other god than the one we serve, and htis has been the extent of my claim.


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