2 registered members (rome1453, Augoustinos),
497
guests, and 602
spiders. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums26
Topics34,756
Posts412,065
Members5,606
|
Most Online2,716 Jun 7th, 2012
|
|
|
Re: Huge Chalices
[Re: Secret Squirrel]
#287931
05/03/08 02:45 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 787
Fr David Straut
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 787 |
Also, I hope no deacon is driving for a few hours after doing the ablutions on that chalice! These ecclesiastical extravaganzas tend to have a small army of deacons, so I believe that there are plenty deacons to consume the Holy Gifts and purify the Chalices. By the way, I heard that Clergy in Russia aren't permitted to drive. Too many automotive fatalities with crazy Russian drivers. The holy canons forbid a clergyman to serve if he has caused a death. Fr David Straut (who only occasionaly is given a driver and usually has to take risks)
|
|
|
Re: Huge Chalices
[Re: Fr David Straut]
#287938
05/03/08 06:09 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564
Fr Serge Keleher
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564 |
"Archpriestly girth" is actually an expression in Russian! Haven't heard it in years, but you've brought back memories - Christ is Risen!
Fr. Serge
|
|
|
Re: Huge Chalices
[Re: Fr Serge Keleher]
#287971
05/04/08 12:02 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 787
Fr David Straut
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 787 |
Dear Fr Serge,
Truly, He is risen!
I hope that you have had a joyful Pascha and Bright Week.
Fr David
|
|
|
Re: Huge Chalices
[Re: Fr David Straut]
#287996
05/04/08 05:32 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 943
spdundas
Member
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 943 |
Hello all....
I don't know if this is off topic or not, but considering some folks talking about Chalice(s) being placed on the Holy Table as "one chalice".
I have seen in some Orthodox Churches that have only ONE chalice on the Holy Table and the rest of them on the Prothesis Table and when it comes to time for Communion, the priests would go over there and bring the rest of the Chalices to the Holy Table. I have not seen any pourings from the Chalice that's already on the Holy Table, so it is as if the other Chalices are already prepared before, and apparently it was consecrated at the same time as the one Chalice already on the Holy Table?
Does what I'm saying make senses?
Anyway...has anyone seen anything like that and if so or not, what are your thoughts on that.
Thanks,
SPDundas Deaf Byzantine
|
|
|
Re: Huge Chalices
[Re: spdundas]
#287997
05/04/08 05:36 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,516
Orthodox Pyrohy
Forum Keilbasa Sleuth Member
|
Forum Keilbasa Sleuth Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,516 |
The Secret Squirrel has good points. We all know if they did use a blessed chain saw it would be made by John Deere.
|
|
|
Re: Huge Chalices
[Re: Orthodox Pyrohy]
#287998
05/04/08 06:06 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,571
Our Lady's slave
Member
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,571 |
Does John Deere actually produce anything as small as a chain saw ?
|
|
|
Re: Huge Chalices
[Re: Etnick]
#288000
05/04/08 06:53 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 943
spdundas
Member
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 943 |
Oh Deere! SPDundas Deaf Byzantine
|
|
|
Re: Huge Chalices
[Re: spdundas]
#288002
05/04/08 07:08 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,571
Our Lady's slave
Member
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,571 |
WOW - I always associated them with HUGE Agricultural machnery which towered over our car and caravan
|
|
|
Re: Huge Chalices
[Re: Our Lady's slave]
#288006
05/04/08 08:12 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 943
spdundas
Member
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 943 |
Deere Folks,
What do you think of my question above?
SPDundas Deaf Byzantine
|
|
|
Re: Huge Chalices
[Re: spdundas]
#288021
05/05/08 12:34 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 787
Fr David Straut
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 787 |
Hello all....
I don't know if this is off topic or not, but considering some folks talking about Chalice(s) being placed on the Holy Table as "one chalice".
I have seen in some Orthodox Churches that have only ONE chalice on the Holy Table and the rest of them on the Prothesis Table and when it comes to time for Communion, the priests would go over there and bring the rest of the Chalices to the Holy Table. I have not seen any pourings from the Chalice that's already on the Holy Table, so it is as if the other Chalices are already prepared before, and apparently it was consecrated at the same time as the one Chalice already on the Holy Table?
Does what I'm saying make senses?
Anyway...has anyone seen anything like that and if so or not, what are your thoughts on that.
Thanks,
SPDundas Deaf Byzantine Dear SPDundas, I'm pretty sure no Orthodox would consider the contents of Chalices left on the Prothesis Table during the Anaphora consecrated as the Blood of Christ. In Antiochian (and I assume Greek) churches Chalices containing unconsecrated wine are sometinmes brought to the Holy Table before the people's Communion and a small amount of the Consecrated Wine (i.e. the Blood of Christ) is added to the unconsecrated wine in each of the Chalices. The way I've seen this done is pouring the Blood of Christ directly from the main Chalice into each of the unconsecrated Chalices -without the use of the special ladle the Russians use - and this is considered to consecrate the entire contents of these extra Chalices into the Blood of Christ. Also a portion of the Lamb is placed into each of these extra Chalices at the fraction. Fr David Straut
|
|
|
Re: Huge Chalices
[Re: Fr David Straut]
#288026
05/05/08 01:15 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 943
spdundas
Member
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 943 |
Fr. Straut,
You are right on target on guessing it was Antiochian that I was referring about...I forgot to mention which Church.
That's very interesting concept...hmmm. Thanks for your explanation.
SPDundas Deaf Byzantine
|
|
|
Re: Huge Chalices
[Re: Fr David Straut]
#288035
05/05/08 06:02 AM
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,028
asianpilgrim
OP
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,028 |
Dear SPDundas,
I'm pretty sure no Orthodox would consider the contents of Chalices left on the Prothesis Table during the Anaphora consecrated as the Blood of Christ.
In Antiochian (and I assume Greek) churches Chalices containing unconsecrated wine are sometinmes brought to the Holy Table before the people's Communion and a small amount of the Consecrated Wine (i.e. the Blood of Christ) is added to the unconsecrated wine in each of the Chalices. The way I've seen this done is pouring the Blood of Christ directly from the main Chalice into each of the unconsecrated Chalices -without the use of the special ladle the Russians use - and this is considered to consecrate the entire contents of these extra Chalices into the Blood of Christ. Also a portion of the Lamb is placed into each of these extra Chalices at the fraction.
Fr David Straut
Interesting. This was also practiced in the Western Rites until medieval times. In the original 1570 Roman Missal down to the eighteenth century, there was a rubric which stated that, after receiving holy communion, the faithful are to drink unconsecrated wine. While this is not the same as drinking wine admixtured with a little of the Blood, I can see a linear succession between both practices. Amazing how, at one time, the Eastern and Western rites were so much more similar than they are now.
|
|
|
Re: Huge Chalices
[Re: Mykhayl]
#288074
05/05/08 03:53 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564
Fr Serge Keleher
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564 |
Mikhaylo asks: What to use for the air (vale)? The Good Friday plachanytcha (shroud)? Apart from mis-spellings, this question is not foolish. It seems that the Shroud (Epitaphios, Plashchanytsia, or whichever language you like) evolved from the Aer, and relatively recently at that. (that's "Serge recent," you understand!). Fr. Serge
|
|
|
Re: Huge Chalices
[Re: Fr Serge Keleher]
#288080
05/05/08 04:35 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,010
Chtec
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,010 |
I'll confirm that the practice Fr. David mentions--the pouring of a small amount of the Precious Blood into a chalice of unconsecrated wine and water--is done in Greek churches as well.
If I remember correctly, this was also done at the consecration of Christ the Savior Cathedral in Moscow, at least as far as I could tell from the video. So, it may be done in other Orthodox countries as well in extraordinary circumstances.
Many in the Orthodox world ascribe to the idea of "contact consecration" when it comes to liquids: that a small amount of the Precious Blood, or holy water, or holy oil, can consecrate a larger amount of the same liquid (wine, water and oil, respectively). This is why clergy of this "Greek" school of throught will consider the wine at the Presanctified Liturgy to be the Blood of Christ (although some may contend that the Lamb is actually what consecrates the chalice, and not the small amount of the Precious Blood that is *on* the Lamb). Most Slav clergy view the wine at Presanctified Liturgy as the *means* for distributing the Lamb, but not as being consecrated.
Dave
|
|
|
|