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Re: Freemasonry/Masonics and the Church (?) [Re: spdundas] #288668
05/13/08 04:49 AM
05/13/08 04:49 AM
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Stephanos I Offline
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Canons 1374 and 278 deal with Masonic societies.
[b] Canon 1374 One who joins an association which plots against the Church is to be punished with a just penalty; one who promotes or moderates such an association, however, is to be punished with an interdict.[/b]

[b] Canon 278.3 Clerics are to refrain from establishing or participating in associations whose ends or activity cannot be reconciled with the obligations proper to the clerical state or which could hinder the diligent fulfillment of the duty entrusted to them by competent ecclesiastical authority.[/b]
Note:

The 1983 Code in canon 1374 forbids only in a general way those who plot against the Church and does not single out Masons. A declaration of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrineof the Faith, however, reaffirmed the prohibition against joining the Masons.


Re: Freemasonry/Masonics and the Church (?) [Re: Stephanos I] #288673
05/13/08 10:02 AM
05/13/08 10:02 AM
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Holy Land
eli Offline OP
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Thank you Stephanos,

Yet the image is still a bit blurry here, what confirms that Masons actually plot against the church?

Re: Freemasonry/Masonics and the Church (?) [Re: eli] #288682
05/13/08 01:23 PM
05/13/08 01:23 PM
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spdundas Offline
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Eli,

You need to do your own research to find out information to answer your question.

There's no way that the forum could make a long list of information, it is just way too much information to be able to fit into this forum.

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

Re: Freemasonry/Masonics and the Church (?) [Re: eli] #288705
05/13/08 07:51 PM
05/13/08 07:51 PM
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It is well known in Europe, Northern Ireland and Mexico that these societies have been "intensely" anti catholic and anti clerical. The whole persecution of the Church in Mexico in the 20'2 was Masonic backed.
But my point was not so much as ploting against the Church but that part of the canon where it mentions no participation in societies whose goals cannont be reconciled with the Church.
One can hardly reconcile the pagan rites of freemasonary with the Catholic Church can they?
Stephanos I

Last edited by Stephanos I; 05/13/08 07:51 PM.
Re: Freemasonry/Masonics and the Church (?) [Re: spdundas] #288809
05/14/08 06:43 PM
05/14/08 06:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
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Holy Land
eli Offline OP
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I fully understand this and agree to it.
yet it seems that we have totally different conceptions of masons here in the Holy Land...
and the fact that many of our good men (and many active in the church as well) belongs to this movement puzzles me.

peacefully,
eli

Re: Freemasonry/Masonics and the Church (?) [Re: eli] #288869
05/16/08 12:01 AM
05/16/08 12:01 AM
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Dr John Offline
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I suspect that the main issue is of control. Since the Masons and other fraternal organizations exist outside the direct influence of the Roman Church structure, their very existence is suspect.

As Brother Eli notes, in the Middle East, the organization appears to do good things, as they also appear to do in Scotland and elsewhere.

To be honest, I'm a bit sceptical about reports of spitting on crucifixes and throat-slashings. They seem to be beyond the pale, and akin to the urban legends that plague modern society. Like the Jews using "dead Christian babies' blood" as sacrifices, or the use of dead Christian bones to make Matzoh that were common in the Pre-WWII European societies. The best way to hit your competition or opponent is to demonize them with accusations that are difficult to prove and dis-prove.

It seems that the only fair way to understand (isn't this the Christian way?) is to examine who they are and what they do. And then (and only then) determine one's relationship with the group. Apochryphal anecdotes are dangerous. They can lead to unjustified hate and persecution. While some members of a group can indeed be hateful and bigoted (witness some Christians still using the N-word), it is the majority of the group that really establishes the tenor of the organization.

And as Christians, we need to hitch up with other people of good will and good 'service to the needy'.

Blessings to All!

Dr John

Re: Freemasonry/Masonics and the Church (?) [Re: Dr John] #288871
05/16/08 12:19 AM
05/16/08 12:19 AM
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The Third Rome
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RUSSIAN ORTHODOX GREEK CATHOLIC CHURCH OF AMERICA

HIS EMINENCE THE MOST REVEREND LEONTY ARCHBISHOP OF NEW YORK METROPOLITAN OF THE RUSSIAN ORTHODOX GREEK-CATHOLIC CHURCH OF AMERICA

59 EAST SECOND STREET NEW YORK 3, NEW YORK Telephone, Gramercy 7-7836

CIRCULAR LETTER

May 9, 1960 # 18649

TO ALL PASTORS AND CHURCH COMMITTEES OF THE RUSSIAN ORTHODOX GREEK CATHOLIC CHURCH OF AMERICA

The Great Council of Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Church of America, in session on March 29, 1960 RESOLVED: to publicize again for general information, the resolution concerning Masonry passed by the Great Council of Bishops on October 25, 1949 (see Russian Orthodox Messenger, p. 33 # 3, 1950) which reads as follows:

a) to caution members of the Russian Orthodox Church of America and especially the pastors, of the incompatibility of membership in the saving Church of Christ and simultaneously membership in Masonic Lodges, which are a mixture of pagan and other religions with certain secret "initiations" as a fixed ritual of the order;

b) to explain to the faithful that our Church views Masonry in perfect accord with the teaching of the Greek Orthodox Church and accepts her testament expressed by the Head of the Church of the Hellenes, the Most Reverend Chrysostom, Archbishop of Athens, in session of October 12, 1933 in Athens, in the following two statements:

FIRST: All the faithful children of the Church must stand apart from Freemasonry. With unshaken faith in Our Lord Jesus Christ, possessing the truth revealed by Him and preached by His Apostles, partaking in the Divine Sacraments through which we are sanctified, we must not fall from the grace of Christ by becoming partakers of other mysteries. It is not lawful to belong at the same time to Christ and to search for redemption and moral perfection outside Him.

SECOND: all who have become involved in the initiations of masonic mysteries must from this moment sever all relations with masonic lodges and activities, being sure that they are thereby of a certainty renewing their links with our one Lord and Saviour which were weakened by ignorance and a wrong sense of values.

c) to reiterate the statement of the Eastern Churches to those who entered masonry not realizing that by it they were passing into another religion comparable to the Gnostic sects of Egypt, Syria, Asia Minor, Persia and Greece, that the Church awaits with great love their contrition for their ignorant departure from Christ, and calls on all faithful to pray that the One Lord Jesus Christ 'the way, the truth and the life' may illumine and return to the truth those who in ignorance have gone astray.

d) to caution all faithful, especially the youth, to take to heart the directions of our Episcopate concerning Masonry, that the Grace of God be with them, their parents and relatives and with their organizations, now abiding in the mercies from above for their loyalty to the Orthodox Church of their fathers.

This resolution is to be promulgated to all concerned and is to be published in the official organ of the Metropolia and if possible, in circulars, for the guidance of all."

In informing all members of the Russian Orthodox Church of America of the above, the Great Council of Bishops strongly recommends that all Reverend Rectors admonish their parishioners who are members of the Masonic Lodges, and use their pastoral influence, especially during Penance, that they repent and leave the masonic organizations. The parishioners who refuse to do so are to be deprived, as unrepentant sinners, of Holy Communion of the Body and Blood of Christ, to whom is glory and honor forever. Amen.

The names of those deprived of Communion must be kept in the parish records as evidence for their exclusion from membership in Parish and Diocesan councils and as delegates to the All-American Sobor. SIGNED by Member of the Metropolitan Council Protopresbyter Feofan Buketoff and Secretary of the Metropolitan Council Right Reverend Joseph Pishtey.


Alexandr

Re: Freemasonry/Masonics and the Church (?) [Re: Slavipodvizhnik] #288872
05/16/08 12:21 AM
05/16/08 12:21 AM
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The Third Rome
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A little about Masonry and why it is incompatible with being a Christian. Each section starts with quotes from Masonic authorities, and is concluded by quotes from Christian Scripture. When you put them side by side like this, the two are clearly seen as incompatible.

JESUS CHRIST

Masonry: "In his private petitions a man may petition God or Jehovah, Allah or Buddha, Mohammed or Jesus; he may call upon the God of Israel or the First Great Cause. In the Masonic Lodge he hears petition to the Great Architect of the Universe, finding his own deity under that name. A hundred paths may wind upward around a mountain; at the top they meet." (Carl H. Claudy, "Introduction to Freemasonry." p. 38)

Christianity: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the Life: no man cometh to the Father, but by me. (Jn.14:6) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name {but Jesus} under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. (Acts 4:12)

---------------------------

GOD

Masonry: "...Since every man's conception of God must be proportioned to his mental cultivation, and intellectual powers, and moral excellence. God is, as man conceives Him, the reflected image of man himself. (Albert Pike, "Morals and Dogma," 14th Degree, p. 234) "The only personal God Freemasonry accepts is humanity in toto...Humanity therefore is the only personal God that there is." (J.D. Buck, "Mystic Masonry," p. 216) "The Absolute is Reason. Reason IS, by means of itself. It IS because IT IS...If God IS, HE IS by Reason." (Albert Pike, "Morals and Dogma," 28th Degree. p. 737)

Christianity: In the Beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (Gen. 1:1) For there are three that bear record in Heaven, the Father, the Word {Jesus}, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (I Jn. 5:7) God said undo Moses, I AM THAT I AM... (Ex. 3:14)

------------------------------

THE HOLY BIBLE

Masonry: "...the literal meaning (of the Bible) is for the vulgar only." (Albert Pike, "Digest of Morals and Dogma," p. 166) "Masonry makes no profession of Christianity...but looks forward to the time when the labor of our ancient brethren shall be symbolized by the erection of a spiritual temple...in which there shall be but one alter and one worship; one common altar of Masonry on which the Veda, Shastra, Sade, Zend-Avesta, Koran and Holy Bible shall lie...and at whose shrine the Hindoo, the Persian, the Assyrian, the Chaldean, the Egyptian, the Chinese, the Mohammedan, the Jew and the Christian may kneel..." ("The Kentucky Monitor." Fellowcraft Degree, p. 95) The removal of the name of Jesus and references to Him in Bible verses used in the ritual are "slight but necessary modifications." (Albert Mackey, "Masonic Ritualist." p. 272)

Christianity: The Words of the Lord are pure words, as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. (Psa. 12:6) All Scripture is given by inspiration of God... (II Tim. 3:16) ...if they speak not according to this Word, it is because there is no light in them. (Isa. 8:20)

------------------------------

REDEMPTION

Masonry: "These three degrees (1st, 2nd, 3rd) thus form a perfect an harmonious whole, nor can it be conceived that anything can be suggested more, which the soul of man requires." (Daniel Sickles, "Ahimon Rezon or Freemason's Guide." p. 196) "If we with suitable true devotion maintain our Masonic profession, our faith will become a beam of light an bring us to those blessed mansions where we shall be eternally happy with God, the Great Architect of the Universe." (Daniel Sickles, "Ahimon Rezon or Freemason's Guide." p. 79) "...salvation by faith and the vicarious atonement were not taught as now interpreted, by Jesus, nor are these doctrines taught in the esoteric scriptures. They are later and ignorant perversions of the original doctrines." (J.D. Buck, "Mystic Masonry." p. 57)

Christianity: As it is written. There is none righteous no not one: (Rom. 3:10) For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. (Rom. 3:23) For He hath made Him {Jesus} to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him. (II Cor. 5:21) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Eph. 2:8-9)

---------------------------------------

SATAN

Masonry: "The conviction of all men that God is good led to a belief in a devil..." (Albert Pike, "Morals and Dogma." 19th Degree, p. 324) "...there is no rebellious demon of Evil, or Principle of Darkness coexistent and in eternal controversy with God, or the Principle of Light..." (Albert Pike, "Morals and Dogma," 32nd Degree, p.859)

Christianity: Ye are of your father, the devil...he is a liar, and the father of it. (Jn. 8:44) Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. (Jas. 4:7) Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (Eph. 6:11-12) ...your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour. (I Pet. 5:8)

--------------------------------------

TRUTHFULNESS

Masonry: The Mason Doctrine teaches that it right to lie, if necessary to protect the secrets of the Lodge, or to protect brother Masons by concealing his wrongdoing. It can even be right to deliberately deceive sincere Masons seeking to learn the lessons and secrets of Masonry.

"The Blue Degrees are but the portico (porch) of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine that he understands them...their true ecplication (explanation / understanding) is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry." (Albert Pike, "Morals and Dogma," 30th Degree, p. 189) "You must conceal all crimes of your brother Masons...and should you be summoned as a witness against a brother Mason be always sure to shield him...It may be perjury to do this, it is true, but you're keeping your obligations." (Ronayne, "Handbook of Masonry." p. 183) "Furthermore do I promise and swear that a Master Mason's secrets, given to me in charge as such, and I knowing them to be such, shall remain as secure and inviolable in my breast as in his own, when communicated to me, murder and treason excepted; and they left to my own election." (Master Mason's / 3rd Degree Oath of Obligation)

Christianity: Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. (Ex. 20:16) Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another. (Lev. 19:11) ...lie not to one another. (Col. 3:9) ...all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death. (Rev 21:8)

-----------------------------------

SECRECY & BLOOD OATHS

Masonry: Secrecy is indispensable in a Mason of whatever degree." (Albert Pike, "Morals and Dogma," 4th Degree, p. 109) I...do hereon most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear that I will always hail, ever conceal and never reveal any of the arts, parts or points of the secret arts any mysteries of ancient Freemasonry which I have received, am about to receive, or may hereafter be instructed in..." (Oath of Obligation, Entered Apprentice/1st Degree, and include in all subsequent degrees, always on penalty of mayhem and violent death) "...binding myself under no less a penalty that that of having my body severed in twain, my bowels taken out and burned to ashes, the ashes scattered to the four winds of heaven..." (from the Oath of Obligation, Master Mason/Third Degree) "...In willful violation whereof may I incur the fearful penalty of having my eyeballs pierced to the center with a three-edged blade, my feet flayed and I be forced to walk the hot sands upon sterile shores of the Red Sea until the flaming Sun shall strike me with a livid plague, and may Allah, the god of Arab, Moslem and Mohammedan, the god of our fathers, support me to the entire fulfillment of the same." (from the Oath of Obligation, Ancient Arabic Order of Nobles of the Mystic Shrine ["Shriners"])

Christianity: I {Jesus} spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple...and in secret have I said nothing. (Jn. 18:20) Provide things honest in the sight of all men. (Rom. 12:17) Thou shalt not kill (murder). (Ex. 20:13) But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation. (Jas. 5:12)

Alexandr

Re: Freemasonry/Masonics and the Church (?) [Re: Slavipodvizhnik] #288873
05/16/08 12:44 AM
05/16/08 12:44 AM
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Wichita
spdundas Offline
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Alexandr...

Thanks for your postings! On your second posting (Mason VS Christian belief)...can you supply a source for it? So I can have something concrete as evidence to show the fact.

Thanks,

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

Re: Freemasonry/Masonics and the Church (?) [Re: spdundas] #288877
05/16/08 01:32 AM
05/16/08 01:32 AM
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West Coast
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Let me warn and reiterate again! A Christian "CANNOT" be a mason the two are absolutely opposed to one another. One who thinks he can mingle syncratistic religion with the truth of the Gospel has only deluded himself and runs the risk of loosing his own soul!
Stephanos I

Re: Freemasonry/Masonics and the Church (?) [Re: Stephanos I] #288885
05/16/08 04:16 AM
05/16/08 04:16 AM
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California
Elizabeth Maria Offline
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I know a mason who is a 33 degree mason and a Greek Orthodox Christian. His friends paid for his installment in the masonic rank. He regrets it now and is afraid of leaving it.

So he does not go unless he absolutely has to.

Just adding -- he does not recommend that anyone join it. He feels like a slave.

Last edited by Elizabeth Maria; 05/16/08 04:17 AM.
Re: Freemasonry/Masonics and the Church (?) [Re: Elizabeth Maria] #288887
05/16/08 04:20 AM
05/16/08 04:20 AM
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California
Elizabeth Maria Offline
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I had some very wealthy relatives who were masonic.

They were cold, calculating, and dishonest, and rarely attended church. They put a couple of my relatives in mental hospitals so that they could take away their inheritance and leave them penniless. So much for charity.

p.s. And those two relatives were not mentally ill, just anemic like many Greek Americans.

Last edited by Elizabeth Maria; 05/16/08 04:22 AM.
Re: Freemasonry/Masonics and the Church (?) [Re: Elizabeth Maria] #288889
05/16/08 04:37 AM
05/16/08 04:37 AM
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California
Elizabeth Maria Offline
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I do not know the entire history of Masonry; however, crafts were founded to gain power.

Then there is the saying of Lord Acton: Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Re: Freemasonry/Masonics and the Church (?) [Re: Elizabeth Maria] #288898
05/16/08 10:56 AM
05/16/08 10:56 AM
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Roanoke, VA
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mwbonline Offline
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This is from a Protestant source...so beware reading other sections which contain false theology. BUT, it does have direct quotes from prominent 'Christian' Masons showing the complete elimination of repentance for sin and dependence on a personal
God which Masonry replaces with man-centered humanism and religious syncretism:
http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/spirituality/peale.htm

Re: Freemasonry/Masonics and the Church (?) [Re: Elizabeth Maria] #288902
05/16/08 11:20 AM
05/16/08 11:20 AM
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Alice Offline
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Originally Posted by Elizabeth Maria
I had some very wealthy relatives who were masonic.

They were cold, calculating, and dishonest, and rarely attended church. They put a couple of my relatives in mental hospitals so that they could take away their inheritance and leave them penniless. So much for charity.


I have always heard that joining a Masonic temple is usually so that one will find wealth and success. RIGHT there, one has chosen to follow false gods and idols rather than Jesus Christ...networking and making contacts for one's career is not evil unto itself, but joining a secret society which calls itself a 'temple' is a horse of another color.

I have to say that I was really shocked to read your blanket statement of:

Quote
p.s. And those two relatives were not mentally ill, just anemic like many Greek Americans.
.


While I would not disagree that many Greek born Americans are agnostic or even atheists, (though I don't exactly know what you meant by 'anemic') and that many Greek Americans born there or here, put too much value and pride in success and money above all else (though they have been blessed with the gift of hard work and brains to attain it--those particular ethnic genes seemingly gone dormant in my case, however..), they are not different in that way in numbers from other ethnic groups in this country.

Infact, it is the very ethos of this country which emphasizes hard work, success and money that they have strived to achieve. They have done that and they have contributed to this country greatly in every way, from the hard working immigrant off the boat like my grandfatherm who came here to escape horrific poverty, to generations of offspring born and raised in this country.

The only difference that sometimes offends me, personally, is that some of the Greek born agnostics participate heavily in the life of the church, often making life miserable for their more pious fellow parishioners and/or the priest--which, ofcourse, they do for cultural reasons and not religious ones...BUT, as one Greek Orthodox priest once wisely said, better they be in church so that something may penetrate for the good of their souls, than not be in it.

Never the less, I do think that your blanket statement of many Greek Americans being 'anemic', as it is worded, is crossing the boundaries of charity towards me and other Americans of Greek descent, don't you think?

In the Risen Christ,
Alice, Moderator





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