www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology The Sequence of the Sacraments of Initiation

AHA - I wonder though if what happens as a result is considered good

I'm not really taking a poke at the RC Church BUT

These young children have not made their First Communion - and they are being Confirmed - that's OK - but the problem was and I suppose still is that the Dicesan Liturgist had to think up a Confirmation Service ! These kiddies could not Receive Communion so the Confirmation Service could not be within a Celebration of Mass .

OK so the Service was constructed and then the low rumbles were heard - it's not a 'proper ' Service - it's not Mass . There seems to be this attitude that everything has to be done within Mass - you have to be able to receive Communion at any service held in the Church.

I don't think , from what I have heard since , that this problem which is really because of lack of education , has yet been solved. OH and of course it is often the Dean of the Deanery who actually Confirms the Children - not the Bishop.

Well, obviously I cannot speak from a Roman Catholic point of view, but why not Confirm these children at the Mass at which they will then receive their First Holy Communion? And should not a Bishop be doing the Confirmations as a matter of course? If a priest is going to Chrismate, why not have all three Sacraments of Initiation together in infancy?

Fr David Straut

Not down to me of course

I agree it would seem a good idea to use the one Mass - after all it is donw that way for those entering the church through RCIA at the Easter Vigil .

I suppose the idea is to spread things out a little and try and get a pattern of Mass attendance built up. These children are young enough to have to be brought by their parents to Church.

As one Archbishop said to a Parish Priest when coming to meet the parents at the parish some 4 months before Confirmations - " " Well Father, I wonder how many of these parents you saw last Sunday at Mass and I wonder if you will see tham again once their children have been Confirmed " A sad but accurate statement.

In the Roman Catholic Diocese of Phoenix, the traditional order of initiation is being restored somewhat... except that Confession (also noted above by OLS) has become a rite of initiation.

Good points all around.

Phoenix is not alone and this is occurring in more and more RC dioceses. Several years ago I had an e-mail exchange at the website with a priest in Scotland looking for information on how the Byzantines celebrated the Sacraments of Initiation. Glad to see OLS note that it is occurring in the UK. Renewal will need to be done pastorally and over a few generations. I can see the day, after a generation placing Confirmation before Eucharist, when they move the administration of Confirmation and Eucharist back to the time of Baptism. The theological discussions in the Latin circles seem to be suggesting that eventual outcome.

Yah, Father, I'm here!

No, I haven't lost interest. What you and the others have written have only strengthened my own conviction that the Sacraments of Initiation have been terribly misunderstood in my Church.

It has occured to me that delaying Confirmation after Holy Communion, while intended to magnify the Eucharistic mystery, actually ends up devaluing the Eucharist. For Confirmation, as the completion of Baptism and the sealing of the believer with the Holy Spirit, is in fact the most important "preparation" for Holy Communion. To delay it after First Communion is to not vivify and prepare the communicant with the gift of the Holy Spirit. Of course, the whole inversion of the process also ends up relegating Confirmation to minor rank (a lot of people don't bother with it at all since First Communion is seen as the most important), which in turn only perpetuates the historic lack of a Pneumatological consciousness in the Roman Catholic Church. Surely, this is something in which Byzantine Catholics and Eastern Orthodox can actively help the Latin West.