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#291736 - 06/13/08 11:10 PM
A proposal
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Member
Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 1859
Loc: The Third Rome
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Just thinking out loud, really, but let me throw this out for discussion. Let us say that Rome places all it's cards on the table, and seriously talks reunion. Papal supremacy, infallibility, universal jurisdiction, etc, all thrown out. Along with the dogmatization of the Immaculate Conception. Vatican I and II are condemned, and all western councils after the schism are recognized as local councils only. The Filoque is downgraded to a local tradition. Constantinople retains primacy of honor. Rome is replaced in the dyptichs in the 5th spot, behind Jerusalem, and in front of Moscow, as penance for the schism, but still retaining the distinction of being one of the ancient Patriarchates. Western Metropolitanates are established in Munich, Stockholm, Paris, Madrid, Prague, Bratislava, Warsaw, London, Dublin, Tokyo, New York, Mexico City, Buenos Aries, Sao Paulo and Sydney. All Catholic bishops and cardinals are brought before a panel of their fellow Orthodox bishops and proven Catholic bishops, and evaluated on their orthodoxy. Those proven orthodox retain their episcopacy. Those who do not, are retired to monasteries. Russia, Greece and Serbia can provide enough temporary bishops to cover the west until their own can be trained. Eastern Churches in western lands and western Churches in Eastern lands would be metochions of their respective patriarchates.
Any takers?
Alexandr
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#291748 - 06/14/08 04:00 AM
Re: A proposal
[Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
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Member
Registered: 11/12/02
Posts: 980
Loc: Where we say men and mankind
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Just thinking out loud, really, but let me throw this out for discussion. Let us say that Rome places all it's cards on the table, and seriously talks reunion. Papal supremacy, infallibility, universal jurisdiction, etc, all thrown out. Along with the dogmatization of the Immaculate Conception. Vatican I and II are condemned, and all western councils after the schism are recognized as local councils only. The Filoque is downgraded to a local tradition. Constantinople retains primacy of honor. Rome is replaced in the dyptichs in the 5th spot, behind Jerusalem, and in front of Moscow, as penance for the schism, but still retaining the distinction of being one of the ancient Patriarchates. Western Metropolitanates are established in Munich, Stockholm, Paris, Madrid, Prague, Bratislava, Warsaw, London, Dublin, Tokyo, New York, Mexico City, Buenos Aries, Sao Paulo and Sydney. All Catholic bishops and cardinals are brought before a panel of their fellow Orthodox bishops and proven Catholic bishops, and evaluated on their orthodoxy. Those proven orthodox retain their episcopacy. Those who do not, are retired to monasteries. Russia, Greece and Serbia can provide enough temporary bishops to cover the west until their own can be trained. Eastern Churches in western lands and western Churches in Eastern lands would be metochions of their respective patriarchates.
Any takers?
Alexandr It's funny you mention this. I dreamed the same thing last night. However , I woke up. 
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#291768 - 06/14/08 11:12 AM
Re: A proposal
[Re: Etnick]
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Member
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 231
Loc: US
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Alexandr, you have an interesting idea and I like the idea, although I think you are letting Rome off lightly. Something to think about. Again we are talking about what if. This is only an idea.. darn it. :-)
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#291772 - 06/14/08 11:20 AM
Re: A proposal
[Re: Deacon Robert Behrens]
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Member
Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 4741
Loc: somewhere betwixt the Alpha an...
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Alexandr,
I like a lot of wat you post, but, my response is as follows:
Even if I accepted it, the Holy Spirit would disallow it! To quote St. Gregory of Nyssa: "According to the privilege granted him by the Lord, he (Peter) is that unbreakable and most solid rock upon which the Savior built his Church." (PG 46 733). Slava Isusu Christu!
Deacon Robert Behrens
Holy Ghost Byzantine Catholic Church
Jessup, Lackawanna County, Pa.
Eparchy of Passaic
Byzantine Catholic Metropolia of Pittsburgh
USA
Amen! I think Alexandr's "modest proposal" reflects a certain end of the theological continuum. Its corresponding opposite pole is reflected in the thought of the uber-Latinists who accuse the Orthodox of heresy and of being in need of absorption into Roman Catholicism of the Eastern-rite under the supreme power of the Pontiff. Somehow I think there is a via media more reflective of the mutual respect and love due to all churches involved. Just my two cents... Gordo
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#291785 - 06/14/08 01:45 PM
Re: A proposal
[Re: lanceg]
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Member
Registered: 04/12/06
Posts: 180
Loc: Minneapolis, Minn. USA
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Safe to say, I think this one is a no go. Ecumenical councils such as Lyon II, Florence, Trent, and Vatican I are key, core normative, essential ones to the immutable fullness of the Catholic faith and witness to the world. They can no more be tampered with than Nicaea I and Nicaea II can.
Best to all,
Robster
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#291883 - 06/15/08 04:19 PM
Re: A proposal
[Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
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Member
Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 4048
Loc: Dublin
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Just imagine what would result if I were to write the same proposal in reverse!
Fr. Serge
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#291885 - 06/15/08 04:30 PM
Re: A proposal
[Re: Serge Keleher]
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Member
Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Romania
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This kind of talk, as the first poster wrote, is a game, loss of time, vanity.
The end is near and we are blind. If the man would be aware, he would tear from dawns to dusk.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have much mercy upon me a sinner!
Have mercy, God, have much mercy upon all the souls and the whole sorrowful nature.
Amin.
m+
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#291887 - 06/15/08 04:58 PM
Re: A proposal
[Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
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Member
Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 324
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
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My word, how am I to respond to this utterly contemptible piece
of nonsense and not get banned?
Kudos to Archmandrite Serge and Father Deacon Robert for their
self-restraint.
Administrators: either shut this thread down at once or announce
that anything goes.
Edmac
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#291888 - 06/15/08 05:05 PM
Re: A proposal
[Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
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Member
Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 56
Loc: Norway
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Just thinking out loud, really, but let me throw this out for discussion. Let us say that Rome places all it's cards on the table, and seriously talks reunion. Papal supremacy, infallibility, universal jurisdiction, etc, all thrown out. Along with the dogmatization of the Immaculate Conception. Vatican I and II are condemned, and all western councils after the schism are recognized as local councils only. The Filoque is downgraded to a local tradition. Constantinople retains primacy of honor. Rome is replaced in the dyptichs in the 5th spot, behind Jerusalem, and in front of Moscow, as penance for the schism, but still retaining the distinction of being one of the ancient Patriarchates. Western Metropolitanates are established in Munich, Stockholm, Paris, Madrid, Prague, Bratislava, Warsaw, London, Dublin, Tokyo, New York, Mexico City, Buenos Aries, Sao Paulo and Sydney. All Catholic bishops and cardinals are brought before a panel of their fellow Orthodox bishops and proven Catholic bishops, and evaluated on their orthodoxy. Those proven orthodox retain their episcopacy. Those who do not, are retired to monasteries. Russia, Greece and Serbia can provide enough temporary bishops to cover the west until their own can be trained. Eastern Churches in western lands and western Churches in Eastern lands would be metochions of their respective patriarchates. Benedicite! Do unto others... Sorry! No takers!
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