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Thanks, I was a little suspicious of this group.

Besides, it seems that there are several Ukrainian "orthodox" groups that are not canonical. Sad.

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Happy Birthday, Orest.

Originally Posted by Orest
I am usually up on Ukrainian Orthodox history but have never heard of this group.


Being up on Ukrainian Orthodoxy would do nothing to have helped you hear of this group - or any of several others of the same ilk. Rather, you'd want to be up-to-date on episcopi vagante and the ecclesia vagante that they create, staff, and abandon at the drop of a mitre, crown, or whatever liturgical headgear is in vogue at the moment.

Originally Posted by Orest
The names of priests to me seem to be Greek surnames.

Their list of apostolic succcession here:
http://www.ukrainianorthodoxchurchinexile.org/book/scan/elijah.gif

proves nothing or rather proves that this group people with Greek surnames do not have appostolic succession.


Actually, it's much more diverse than that. They've managed to gather together, into one episcopal genealogy some of the most frequently recurring names to be found in the lines of succession claimed by "independent", "non-canonical" and vagante Orthodox and Catholic bodies. The list is awing - and I'm not sure that I captured the lot of them, giving the poor quality of the image:

Theophan Noli (Albanian Orthodox)
Oftimios Ofiesh (Syrian/Antiochian Orthodox)
Christopher Contogeorge (Greek Orthodox)
Antoine Aneed (Melkite Catholic)
Joachim Souris (Greek Orthodox)
Nicholas Bohatyretz (Ukrainian Orthodox)
Joseph Klimovich (Russian Orthodox)
Nicholas Kedroffsky (Russian Orthodox)
Arsenios Saltas (Alexandrian Greek Orthodox)
Peter Zurawetsky (Russian Orthodox)
Konstantin Jaroshevich (I forget which omophor he claimed) Sophronios Beshara (Syrian/Antiochian Orthodox)
John Kedroffsky (Russian Orthodox)

Note that the Church I list next to each would be that which they claimed - not necessarily that the Church would claim them.
Most folks would, rightfully, be reluctant to give credence to the episcopal status of most anyone on that list, with the exception of Fan Noli and Sophronios Beshara. The rest include a couple of "Living Church" hierarchs, renegades, and the like of Christopher Contogeorge who held onto his claim to be considered a legitimate bishop of the GOA by engaging in a lawsuit against the GOA that ended in a consent decree, as much (on the part of the GOA) to avoid further scandal as anything.

Originally Posted by Elizabeth Maria
it seems that there are several Ukrainian "orthodox" groups that are not canonical


The Ukrainians (and those looking to call themselves Ukrainians) have spawned a significant number of ecclesia that include both a few that are 'merely' non-canonical (out of the mainstream, but not necessarily off the reservation) to true, outright vagante. A few years back there was a thread here that discussed a number of these groups - particularly the latter ones - I'll see if I can find it.

Reading it is both amusing and sad: amusing to see the contortions through which people go to convince themselves and others that their two cathedra garage is Fourth Rome, the next Phanar or Vatican; sad to think that folks are taken in by their role-playing.


Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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A friend often delights in recounting the following episode from a conference at a Catholic monastery not far from New York:

A young man - he could not have been much older than 23 - appeared in the full choir dress of a cardinal. Finally someone asked him "Who is the head of your cult?" Nothing daunted, the young "cardinal" replied "Well, the Archbishop of Utrecht, but we're not in communion with him"!

Fr. Serge

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Originally Posted by Jean Francois
I would ask Roman to visit the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary UGCC parish in Montreal and ask when the Stations of the Cross were put up and by whose suggestions. You may be surprised


You, Hrytzko, may be surprised that I have a pretty good idea as to who would have suggested it.

I would ask that in the future you not assume that you are more knowledgeable than other posters on this bulletin board.

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