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#293141 - 06/25/08 05:40 PM eastern or western identity???
walterm Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 14
Loc: arizona, USA
If one's Father was baptized a Byzantine Catholic does this identity carry over to the son? I was baptized in a RC Church, but was told that I am considered to be Byzantine because of my Father's baptism and identity???

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#293145 - 06/25/08 06:05 PM Re: eastern or western identity??? [Re: walterm]
stormshadow Offline
Member

Registered: 10/10/06
Posts: 65
Loc: ct
Yes. I had the exact opposite happen to me, I was born to a RC father and a Byzantine mother. I was baptized in a Byz. Church. I was told by a Byz. priest that even though I had been baptized and gone to a Byz catholic church the majority of my life, I was RC. I just changed my Rite to Byzantine recently.

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#293146 - 06/25/08 06:06 PM Re: eastern or western identity??? [Re: stormshadow]
stormshadow Offline
Member

Registered: 10/10/06
Posts: 65
Loc: ct
In your case, it's a good thing wink

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#293317 - 06/26/08 11:58 PM Re: eastern or western identity??? [Re: stormshadow]
Collin Nunis Offline
Member

Registered: 07/27/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Perth, Australia
Indeed. I have a friend whose mom is Indian-Syrian Orthodox. Her parents joined the Catholic Church upon their migration to Malaysia. This would effectively, while participating in the ecclesial life of the Latin Church, are effectively, Syro-Malankara Catholics.

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#293323 - 06/27/08 12:43 AM Re: eastern or western identity??? [Re: Collin Nunis]
Erie Byz Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/06/07
Posts: 16
Loc: Erie, PA
By Canon Law you would be considered Roman Catholic, unless at the time of your Baptism your parents somehow officially stated that you are a member of the Ruthenian Catholic Church (which I assumed from your colloquial use of "Byzantine Catholic"). THis is not something worth losing any sleep over because your record of Baptism is kept in the Parish you were baptized so for all practical and Spiritual reasons you are a member of whatever Church your were baptized into.

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#293332 - 06/27/08 01:58 AM Re: eastern or western identity??? [Re: Erie Byz]
Serge Keleher Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 3545
Loc: Dublin
Why on earth would a Syro-Malankara Christian assert some sort of connection with the Ruthenians?

Back to reality - the mere fact of Baptism in another Local Church, whether by choice or by necessity, does not affect anyone's canonical affiliation. Thus the Catholic in question is properly a Syro-Malankara Catholic, unless a dispensation of some sort was obtained.

I hasten to add that I personally believe in freedom of religion, and find the notion of "legislating" what Church someone willy-nilly belongs to is repugnant. But the canonical rule is as I have stated it.

Fr. Serge

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#293338 - 06/27/08 04:06 AM Re: eastern or western identity??? [Re: Serge Keleher]
Irish Melkite Global Moderator Offline
Global Moderator
Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 4179
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Serge Keleher
Why on earth would a Syro-Malankara Christian assert some sort of connection with the Ruthenians?


Bless, Father,

Two separate points are getting intermingled here. Collin is speaking of someone who translated to Catholicism from the Indian Syriac Orthodox Church but, for lack of a Syro-Malankara presence, is in the position of participating as a Latin - albeit effectively a Syro-Malankara by reason of the Canon ascribing those from Eastern/Oriental Churches of the Orthodox Communions to the counterpart Catholic Church. He raised this point as an example supporting what had been said to the OP by others.

Many years,

Neil
_________________________
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."

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#293339 - 06/27/08 04:15 AM Re: eastern or western identity??? [Re: Erie Byz]
Irish Melkite Global Moderator Offline
Global Moderator
Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 4179
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Erie Byz
By Canon Law you would be considered Roman Catholic, unless at the time of your Baptism your parents somehow officially stated that you are a member of the Ruthenian Catholic Church (which I assumed from your colloquial use of "Byzantine Catholic"). THis is not something worth losing any sleep over because your record of Baptism is kept in the Parish you were baptized so for all practical and Spiritual reasons you are a member of whatever Church your were baptized into.


Erie,

Welcome to the Forum. As Father Serge has pointed out, this is not the case.

Canon 29 of the Eastern Code


Quote:
1. By virtue of baptism, a child who has not yet completed his fourteenth year of age is enrolled in the Church sui iuris of the Catholic father;

or the Church sui iuris of the mother if only the mother is Catholic or if both parents by agreement freely request it, with due regard for particular law established by the Apostolic See.


As you can see, ascription of the child to a Church sui iuris other than that to which the father is ascribed occurs only if a request is made that such be done - it requires an affirmative parental assertion in favor of doing otherwise than follow the paternal enrollment NOT a parental request to follow such enrollment.

Many years,

Neil

_________________________
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."

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#293399 - 06/27/08 01:40 PM Re: eastern or western identity??? [Re: Irish Melkite]
Erie Byz Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/06/07
Posts: 16
Loc: Erie, PA
I'm sorry that I used the term "request," but I chose to use a colloquial term.

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#293403 - 06/27/08 02:05 PM Re: eastern or western identity??? [Re: Erie Byz]
Serge Keleher Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 3545
Loc: Dublin
The term "request" is not colloquial and there is no need to apologize for using it.

Fr. Serge

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#293562 - 06/28/08 06:25 PM Re: eastern or western identity??? [Re: Serge Keleher]
walterm Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 14
Loc: arizona, USA
I appreciate all the feedback. But that isn't what I had originally asked.

W

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#293566 - 06/28/08 06:56 PM Re: eastern or western identity??? [Re: Serge Keleher]
Serge Keleher Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 3545
Loc: Dublin
Your question might have been better phrased, but what you asked was whether you are canonically a Byzantine Catholic, because that is what your father is/was, even though you yourself were baptized in a Roman Catholic ceremony. The very first response to your question answered, quite correctly,
"Yes".

Fr. Serge

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#293904 - 07/01/08 05:50 PM Re: eastern or western identity??? [Re: Serge Keleher]
walterm Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 14
Loc: arizona, USA
Thank you Fr. Serge, that is exactly what I meant. Accept my apologies for not phrasing it accurately.

Walter

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#294006 - 07/02/08 11:04 AM Re: eastern or western identity??? [Re: walterm]
Serge Keleher Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 3545
Loc: Dublin
Sergius locutus est; causa finita est!

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#294228 - 07/04/08 03:17 PM Re: eastern or western identity??? [Re: Serge Keleher]
Dr. Eric Offline
Catholic Gyoza
Member

Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 4025
Loc: First Rome
Blahoslovy!!!

Are you quoting St. Augustine, Fr. Serge? wink

Your Unworthy Son,

Eric

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