http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080824/od_afp/italyreligionwomenoffbeat



Never before on this earth has there been such a huge number of people who freely and easily, without any shame, without any pangs of conscience "call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" (Isaiah 5:20).

Archbishop Averky of Syracuse (of Blessed Memory)


Alexandr

I nominate this story for the 'Now I've Seen Everything' Award.

Fr David Straut

It seems they have good intentions: to dispel the myth that nuns are, God forgive me, old wrinkly "hags" of a sort. But the way they are going about it is incredibly shallow, I think. I can't believe nuns would take part in this. Still, the intention has to count for *something*, in my opinion.

Alexis

Ah, nuns! I remember them from my childhood. There was Sister Mary Godzilla who taught first grade. Then, Sister Mary Mucous who had the sinus condition. Fifth grade was taught by Sister Mary Thrombosis of the Sacred Heart. And who could forget the ineffable Sister Mary Buttugly who taught PE.

A number of questions spring to mind.

What is the function of a religious sister or nun? Is it for the prophetic witness that this calling stood for in its earliest forms? Or is it some window dressing to make the Church seem "world friendly"? Or have the organizers of this event and the participants all lost all sense of what it is we are about in the Church?

If nuns and/or religious sisters are merely groups of women who live together--something like a lifetime college sorority--does the Church still need them?

BOB

I think the orders like that are pretty much dying out. But the orders that seem to have returned to the objectives of their founders are thriving.

There was also Sister Mary Ruler. (Across the knuckles.)

Why can't the contest be for beauty of the soul? The attention to the beauty of the body encourages vanity and pride.

Terry

Let us also remember Sister Mary Pie Plate of the Last Supper, Sister Mary Grace Note of the Crushed Wimple, Half-Starched, and of course the Superioress, Reverend Mother Latifundia.

Fr. Serge

Amen, Padre.

"We've flattened their fingers...We've branded their buns...Nothing is working... Send in the nuns!"

- Mel Brooks from "History of the World - Part 1" prelude to "The Inquisition"

For some reason I find this rather disturbing.

Converted Viking

It certainly seems as though the nuns who would be interested in participating in this sort of thing already have one foot out the door.


Peace,
Deacon Richard

I found the comments are just too much, the contest is not even yet starting.
From a positive side, this is quite interesting and perhaps refreshing.
Even if it is said a beauty contest, I'm sure we won't have the nuns parading with suimsuit on a stage.

I don't know about a 'beauty contest' per se, because 'choosing' one person over another is not in line with Christianity, but an ad campaign showing the world that nuns are not necessarily old and mean looking is a positive thing.

In Greece, I know of a monastery of many young nuns from different countries. They are beautiful in spirit, in face (from what little one can see in the strict Orthodox habit) and countenance, exceptionally educated, with interesting backgrounds (Harvard graduates, nieces of German city mayors, former nurses, etc.) hospitable, and friendly.

I always mention these nuns to people to impress them that the Church, Christ and the faith are alive and that monasticism is speaking to women-- because unfortunately, most Greeks associate nuns with elderly women with little education...and generally have the idea from not so distant but older days, that nuns were old women who joined a monastery because they couldn't get married, had some handicap, didn't have anyone to take care of them/ie:families, didn't have dowries, or were widowed.

Alice

I agree; folks do seem to be taking this a bit too seriously.
Now, if it's nuns in bathing suits (I think of my 3d
grade teacher, Sr. Felicita, who was well past the first bloom
of youth)that's one thing, but I kinda doubt that's what
the good Father has in mind.

I find it quite peculiar that some of the above posts have taken the opportunity to ridicule nuns with strange name tags.

I was taught by the Sisters of Mercy in grade and high schools and find it hard to express such disrespect for women choosing to follow their vocation to serve God.

Of course a beauty pagent for nuns/sisters is obviously just another an evil influence slithering into our churches.

Aunt B:

I have to agree with you. It's always interesting when people view the past through their own present prism and ridicule it or condemn it.

We used to accept the principle of "spare the rod and spoil the child." Now a parent can find his child calling the Child Abuse Hotline for a spanking. Is it any wonder we have a world full of disrespect--what I call "punks"? Is it any wonder the elderly must worry about home invasions in the middle of the day and feel unsafe?

Discipline--self discipline and the teaching of this very important character trait is the new "four letter word" (even though it's ten).

BOB

Dear Brethren in Christ,

To be fair to those posters, many of us still remember our 'mean' spirited teachers from grade school--and in the cases of our three posters, it seems that their mean old teachers also happened to be nuns. From what I have heard, nothing was as frightening to a little boy as a dour and 'mean' teacher-nun.

Judging from the character of the three posters, (one is a dear priest), who I think that I know pretty well by now, they meant no disrespect to nuns in general, nor was their intent to ridicule the sisterhood. Infact, I would venture to say that I am sure of that

The three who were having a little nostalgic boyhood fun are our posters who happen to have a sense of humour and wit, and I think that, within limits, such is a good thing and a nice trait to have. They were not laughing at any real person in particular, and often we can have a good natured laugh amongst our own...for instance, no one laughed harder at the 'big fat Greek wedding' than me, a Greek American! Infact, it had just come out and the rest of the movie theater which was in an area which is largely very proper WASP, just kept on looking over at me and my family because they were unsure if they should laugh or not--I suppose they were wondering if laughing would classify them as mocking an ethnic group...

So perhaps we can cut our ('all grown up'-but- still little boys at heart) posters a little slack?

I will, however, ask that they behave themselves a bit better from now on!

Alice

This "contest" is a sad sign of the times.

UPDATE:
Priest cancels nun beauty contest

Nuns at Rome's Gregoriana University in November 2006
Father Rungi said the idea had been suggested by nuns themselves

An Italian priest who said he wanted to hold the world's first beauty contest for nuns has decided to cancel the project, saying he was misunderstood.

Antonio Rungi said he had never intended to put sisters on the catwalk, but had wanted to erase a stereotype of them as being old and dour.

He had wanted to hold the contest online on his internet blog.

Father Rungi said he changed his mind after the local religious authorities expressed their displeasure.

"My superiors were not happy. The local bishop was not happy, but they did not understand me either," Father Rungi told Reuters news agency from the town of Mondragone, near Naples.

"It was interpreted as more of a physical thing," he said. "Now, no one is saying that nuns can't be beautiful, but I was thinking about something more complete."

He said he had intended to showcase the good works that nuns do, especially in education and health care, so as to boost interest in religious vocations.

"We have to draw more attention to the world of nuns, who are often not sufficiently appreciated by society," he wrote in his blog.

"Nuns are - above all - women, and beauty is a gift from God," he told Italy's Corriere della Sera newspaper before he cancelled the project.

He had wanted nuns to send their photos to him, so that internet users could then choose the winner.

Father Rungi said the idea of the contest had been put to him by nuns themselves.

www.bbcnews.com

(word has it that Father Rungi's Bishop read the Byzantine forum!! )

Glory to God!

Does anyone else remember the "Miss Christ is Born" Beauty Contest in Athens?

Fr. Serge

What Alice said.

It's come across very poorly, and I'm skeptical that this "contest" is the right way to go.

However, the whole point is to confront the image that Alice describes of nuns being old & ugly.

If I'd had better information, I have no doubt that I'd have become an Eastern Catholic as a very young adult. Given that celibacy is the onlyreason I never approached an RC seminary, I rather suspect I would have become one of the mother-country ordination priests of the 1980's, and some Catholic college would today have one more priest in the classroom.

Or on a lesser scale, the first time I was asked to join the KofC, my response was, "But I'm not Italian."

If we can get the point across that nuns aren't old & ugly, girls are more likely to consider the issue. "Am I called" rather than "That's them."

(still, I'm skeptical about the specific method).

hawk, whose teenage daughter wants to be a nun

A special blessing for your daughter, and a prayer that she may succeed in becoming a nun.

Fr. Serge

Dear Hawk,

This is a blessing. Personally, I tire of all the rhetoric against nuns; my experience of religious sisters has been almost entirely positive. One can acknowledge other's genuinely negative experiences with sisters in schools and so forth. In days past one thinks many young women were forced or channeled into religious who had no true calling - resulting in a personal bitterness that flowed over to those to whom the sisters should have been ministering. These negative pictures of sisters were just not those of our family. We knew many wonderful sisters, in this country and in the missions. And, one thinks, today's secular society likes to "accentuate the negative" when it comes to the religious life, including sisters, whose calling is to stand against the world's prevalent materialism and licentiousness. Some confusion of religious communities attempting renewal no doubt contributes.

Speaking of the negatives, one friend, a Marine, complains about the religious sister, a teacher who disciplined him. Yet this Marine has finally acknowledged that the nun gave him the fortitude to endure the rigors of his military training, from which he still benefits today. God brought positives from adversity - not to justify the pain he suffered.

Prayers for your daughter that she find her true calling. You may be a proud father, whether she dedicates herself to the sisterhood, to marriage, or as a single Christian in the world. She is blessed to have a father like you who understands, to whom she may confide her deepest hopes and questions, knowing that her life's defining purpose is emerging. One thing we know, though the world doesn't immediately acknowledge it, the Christian sisterhoods, be they Orthodox or Catholic, have many holy, beautiful, saintly women in their ranks. Community can be a wholesome way to pursue Christian life to the full.

-Pustinik
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"Acquire a peaceful spirit, and thousands around you will be saved." –St. Serafim of Sarov

As far as this discussion about nuns is concerned, I thank God for all of them. I just spoke with a dear sister last evening.

Young or old, comely or ugly, I thank God for them all...except for maybe one.

God Bless and Forgive,
Bill

Dear Aunt B,
You are so correct - and most (all?) of those negatives seem to be coming from men (or boys). These are maybe thought to be jokes, but sad when prevailing on a Byzantine Forum. This is the kind of talk that might make some young girls or women think that "I'd never want to do that..." Though we say how much priesthood is to be respected, what of the women who seek to follow the Theotokos or other saintly women with their positive response the the Holy Spirit - "I do!" If I were a religious sister, some of whom are my friends, popping into this forum by chance, what a sad shock. How would I feel about my vocation? Or is this just Saturday Night Live or Nunsense? Is this reaction too strong? If humor, one thinks it might be tempered or framed with respect proper to this website. The least word against the priesthood is quickly repudiated - rightly so. Is the male perspective (read bias) the prevalent perspective here? Comparing adjudicated cases, how many nuns were convicted of abuse of minors? In this regard, if one would dare say such a thing, the good sisters seem to have prevailed in some way....

Please excuse if this is seems overly judgmental. This is a public forum, and the enemies of the truth are active. Sad when those "in the Spirit" fuel the fires of secular society.

Perhaps the administrators can provide some statistics on the gender breakdown of Byzantine Forum members. That would be interesting to see in the Town Hall. Hopefully we are creating a Christian welcome to all brothers and sisters in this good place.

Peace,
-Pustinik
----------------
"Acquire a peaceful spirit, and thousands around you will be saved." –St. Serafim of Sarov

Many folks, Catholic and and Non-Catholic alike seem to hold a stereotype of nuns as girls who simply couldn't find a husband. Maybe the point trying to made through the pagrant is that many women who have a vocation are women who could have had succesful marriages &/or careers.

I have never thought that nuns were women who couldn't find husbands. But I have known a few individuals, both priests and nuns, who were a bit whacked and had sought refuge in an order. Sometimes it was a lack of "people skills" but one individual was mentally ill. I do think orders have been a hiding place in the past for some who couldn't function elsewhere. I think the initiation process tends to weed the unsuitable out these days more so than in the past. Some orders do seem to be thriving - I mention the St. Cecilia Dominicans as one example. Others, such as the Sisters of Mercy probably won't exist in a few more years.

I will not mention names, but there is one very devout lady who wanted to become a nun, but the Orthodox Bishop had other plans for her. He knew a lonely seminarian who wanted a wife, and so he arranged for the two to meet. It was love at first sight.

If the Bishop had not intervened, she would have entered the convent that year.

Oh my God... are there things like that?! I WANT!