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Why No Posts Against Hindu Violence #299476 09/13/08 03:14 AM
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Yuhannon Offline OP
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Shlomo Lkhoolkhoon,

I have noticed on this board that many have gone after Islamic extremism (legitimately) but not Hindu. Hindus are nearly as numerous as Muslims, and while not attacking us, like Osama did. Hindu nationalist have lead a campaign of violence against Christians in South Asia. To quote Human Rights Watch:

Attacks against Christians throughout the country have increased significantly since the BJP began its rule at the center in March 1998. They include the killings of priests, the raping of nuns, and the physical destruction of Christian institutions, schools, churches, colleges, and cemeteries. Thousands of Christians have also been forced to convert to Hinduism. The report concludes that as with attacks against Muslims in 1992 and 1993, attacks against Christians are part of a concerted campaign of right-wing Hindu organizations, collectively called the sangh parivar, to promote and exploit communal clashes to increase their political power-base. The movement is supported at the local level by militant groups who operate with impunity.

I hope that more and more of my brothers and sisters here will also start speaking out for our brothers and sisters that are suffering Hindu repression.

Poosh BaShlomo Lkhoolkhoon,
Yuhannon

Re: Why No Posts Against Hindu Violence [Re: Yuhannon] #299487 09/13/08 08:49 AM
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Fr Serge Keleher Offline
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I'm certainly with you. The situation in some parts of India is desperate, and needs all of our support. Worse yet: in contrast to Islam, one "Christian" response is an attempt to produce an amazing "Hindu/Christian" hybrid which is satisfactory neither to the Hindus nor to the Christians. So far as I know, there is no large-scale effort to concoct a "Christian Islam" (let heaven hear and earth shudder!).

Fr. Serge

Re: Why No Posts Against Hindu Violence [Re: Yuhannon] #299490 09/13/08 11:03 AM
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The situation is deplorable and I am not sure there is much the west can do to get the government of India to intervene. I hate to be the one to have to bring it up, but this forum doesn't carry much weight in international affairs.

Re: Why No Posts Against Hindu Violence [Re: byzanTN] #299492 09/13/08 01:25 PM
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The fact is that there has been a huge rush of reports from India, as well as from Malaysia, Vietnam and China, of renewed persecution of Catholics. There is also an upswing in anti-ecclesiastical rhetoric in the Philippine media. I've been trying to document and report on the Asia-wide situation in the blog that I contribute to but, frankly, I am getting overwhelmed and sickened by the reports. There are times when I deliberately don't look at the reports anymore since they only worsen my already bad health. Anyway, I hope to finish my report soon.

Re: Why No Posts Against Hindu Violence [Re: byzanTN] #299529 09/14/08 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by byzanTN
The situation is deplorable and I am not sure there is much the west can do to get the government of India to intervene. I hate to be the one to have to bring it up, but this forum doesn't carry much weight in international affairs.


Shlomo ByzanTN,

You are only slightly right. Right now you hold power you never knew you had. Go to a candidates forum, and get on the questioners list. Write to your local paper asking that the candidates respond. Call radio talk shows.

Jesus showed us the way that one person can change the world. As his follers we have that power too. If every active member of this forum would just write a letter that is all that is needed. If people need a form letter let me know, I would with the administator's permission post it here for use.

One major point we can use is, if the Indian government will not stop religious persecution, then we need to restrict their access to our markets.

Lastly, since two major Eastern Catholic Churches are based in India, this is incumbant on us to help them survive and thrive.

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

Re: Why No Posts Against Hindu Violence [Re: Yuhannon] #299539 09/14/08 03:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Yuhannon
Shlomo Lkhoolkhoon,

I have noticed on this board that many have gone after Islamic extremism (legitimately) but not Hindu [...] Hindu nationalists have led a campaign of violence against Christians in South Asia [...] I hope that more and more of my brothers and sisters here will also start speaking out for our brothers and sisters that are suffering Hindu repression.
Yuhannon,

There was a discussion on this subject just a few weeks ago, under the title "Pagans attack Christians in India". While I certainly deplore such attacks, I can't help but think that when the Church is persecuted, it's a sign that the Church is really doing it's job.

The devil would much rather attack the Church using more subtle means, and delights particularly in getting Church members to do his work for him. It is only when he is unsuccessful in doing this that he throws off the disguise and shows his true face--that of a heartless murderer who delights in everything that is evil.

Furthermore, just as "the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church" was true in the early centuries, so it can be even today. A lot of people are impressed by both the heroism of the martyrs and confessors, and the senseless brutality with which the persecutors carry out their evil intentions.

Let us pray for an end to such violence, but let us also pray that God grant both strength to His servants who are persecuted, and the grace of repentance to their persecutors.


Peace,
Deacon Richard

Re: Why No Posts Against Hindu Violence [Re: Yuhannon] #299588 09/14/08 11:16 PM
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byzanTN Offline
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Quote
You are only slightly right. Right now you hold power you never knew you had. Go to a candidates forum, and get on the questioners list. Write to your local paper asking that the candidates respond. Call radio talk shows.


I don't think the candidates, or most others for that matter, are that concerned with what is happening in India at the moment. It has been next to impossible to get them to even notice what's been happening in Africa for years. The only concern of the candidates is getting elected/re-elected. One can always pray, of course.

Re: Why No Posts Against Hindu Violence [Re: byzanTN] #299593 09/15/08 02:35 AM
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http://www.ucanews.com/2008/09/11/y...ian-violence-in-orissa/?key=buried+alive

...

The mob then began beating Rajesh, who fell down to the ground. While some continued to beat him, others dug a pit in a nearby field. As they dragged Rajesh toward it, he asked the attackers why they were burying him when he was still alive. They retorted, "Call your Jesus. He will save you." They then tied Rajesh, dumped him into the pit and covered it with mud.

Kamal said Tunguru, who watched the entire incident, recounted it all to him.

The extremists then turned to Tunguru, who kept insisting he was a Hindu. Nonetheless, they condemned him for befriending Christians, then poured kerosene on him and set him on fire. Tunguru fled to a nearby village where people helped douse the fire. According to Kamal, Tunguru suffered severe burns on his body.

...

Re: Why No Posts Against Hindu Violence [Re: asianpilgrim] #299595 09/15/08 03:39 AM
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Originally Posted by asianpilgrim
The fact is that there has been a huge rush of reports from India, as well as from Malaysia, Vietnam and China, of renewed persecution of Catholics. There is also an upswing in anti-ecclesiastical rhetoric in the Philippine media. I've been trying to document and report on the Asia-wide situation in the blog that I contribute to but, frankly, I am getting overwhelmed and sickened by the reports. There are times when I deliberately don't look at the reports anymore since they only worsen my already bad health. Anyway, I hope to finish my report soon.


The anti-ecclesiastical rhetoric in the Phillipines is, I personally feel, justifiable. Apart from empowering the people to use their rights to topple a non-performing government, I don't think that the Church in Phillipines has actually done much to lift the people up to better their lives.

I say this based on some pictures that I've seen. They still live in terrible conditions and the Church doesn't seem to do anything to change their mindsets or mentalities to better themselves. Don't expect the Church to spoonfeed, but even inspiring its flock to better their lives for the sake of their families is not there.

I have nothing against the Catholic Church in Phillipines. However, the Church in the Phillipines must break away from its old ways or risk being labelled "opium of the masses" by its own Catholics.

Re: Why No Posts Against Hindu Violence [Re: Collin Nunis] #299601 09/15/08 06:29 AM
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Fr Serge Keleher Offline
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What's become of that Philippine Independent (Aglipayan) Church?

Fr. Serge

Re: Why No Posts Against Hindu Violence [Re: Fr Serge Keleher] #299604 09/15/08 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Serge Keleher
What's become of that Philippine Independent (Aglipayan) Church?

Fr. Serge



It is practically a non-entity. On paper it continues to have impressive numbers (a relatively large hierarchy, hundreds of priests and a few priestesses -- yes, they ordain women -- and an active presence in left-wing street protests), but go to their main cathedral in Manila and it is a study in dereliction, and its Sunday congregation is miniscule by the standards of a normal Filipino Catholic parish. Even daily Mass has been stopped there for lack of a congregation. Their parishes also tend to be very small and derelict and it has been said that more Aglipayans go to church in Catholic parishes than to their own parishes. It does not help that their clergy, if anything, is even more badly educated and even more politicized than the Filipino Catholic clergy.

A lot of Aglipayans simply drift into the Catholic Church without ever formally converting, getting baptized or confirmed (there is much debate over the validity of their baptisms, esp. baptisms conferred prior to the 1950's) into the Catholic Church. They simply attend Mass, receive Communion, or (rarely) even go to confession, thinking that they are already Catholics. (In addition to being a measure of the religious ignorance of my countrymen, this is also an indication of just how similar the Catholic and Aglipayan churches are with regards to devotions and external observances, despite the vast gulf in theology)

The Aglipayan church was founded mainly to agitate for a Filipino hierarchy, free of foreign ties. With the Catholic Church in the Philippines now ruled by an all-Filipino hierarchy, and with the Aglipayans in communion with Canterbury, their raison d'etre is pretty much non-existent. At present, the Aglipayans exist mainly as a church for the "Christian Far Left" in my country.

Last edited by asianpilgrim; 09/15/08 06:53 AM.
Re: Why No Posts Against Hindu Violence [Re: Collin Nunis] #299606 09/15/08 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Collin Nunis
Originally Posted by asianpilgrim
The fact is that there has been a huge rush of reports from India, as well as from Malaysia, Vietnam and China, of renewed persecution of Catholics. There is also an upswing in anti-ecclesiastical rhetoric in the Philippine media. I've been trying to document and report on the Asia-wide situation in the blog that I contribute to but, frankly, I am getting overwhelmed and sickened by the reports. There are times when I deliberately don't look at the reports anymore since they only worsen my already bad health. Anyway, I hope to finish my report soon.


The anti-ecclesiastical rhetoric in the Phillipines is, I personally feel, justifiable. Apart from empowering the people to use their rights to topple a non-performing government, I don't think that the Church in Phillipines has actually done much to lift the people up to better their lives.

I say this based on some pictures that I've seen. They still live in terrible conditions and the Church doesn't seem to do anything to change their mindsets or mentalities to better themselves. Don't expect the Church to spoonfeed, but even inspiring its flock to better their lives for the sake of their families is not there.

I have nothing against the Catholic Church in Phillipines. However, the Church in the Phillipines must break away from its old ways or risk being labelled "opium of the masses" by its own Catholics.


Dear Collins:

On the contrary, the Catholic Church in the Philippines is very socially active. The Archdiocese of Manila has a marvellous program called "Pondo ng Pinoy" (trans. as "The Filipino's Fund") which encourages Filipino Catholics to contribute twenty-five centavos a day to charity, and the Couples for Christ has a major program for uplifting the lives of millions of slum-dwellers called "Gawad Kalinga" (GK). In Gawad Kalinga, once squalid and uninhabitable slums are transformed into gleaming and colorful organized settlements, while the people are taught livelihood skills and are introduced into the practice of a vibrant and charismatic Catholicism. This program has now helped more than a million of the poorest of the poor, and I am proud to say that I once served in GK and my mother continues to serve in it. All over the country you will find priests and nuns spearheading cooperatives, social works, livelihood programs, environmental protection programs, etc.

There are countless clinics, orphanages, homes for street children, institutions for prostitutes claimed from the streets, hospitals, etc. run by the Church in the Philippines. And there are literally thousands of Catholic schools, including hundreds of colleges and universities, that have extensive scholarship programs.

The Catholic Church in the Philippines can be accused of many serious shortcomings, but lack of love and concern for the poor is not one of these. Indeed, one accurate accusation against the Church in the Philippines is that it is too engrossed in socio-political uplifment and liberation: too much emphasis on bread, too little on Christ.

You ask, then, why the Philippines remains poor. The number one reason is massive government incompetence and corruption. THis is something that I personally saw in my corporate life, in my dealings with government officials, some of whom were just so shamelessly incompetent and venal. In some government agencies, as much as 40-60% of the budget is siphoned off to private bank accounts or otherwise salted off to enrich corrupt officials. There is also the general neglect of agriculture and industry (hint: last year, in 2007, 50% of the Philippines' vegetable and fisheries harvests and some 10-15% of the rice harvest rotted before reaching the markets. This is a figure that I got from no less than the office of the Secretary for Agricuture. I have also personally seen huge fields in the southern Philippines, fields as vast and as wide as the eye can see, where the coconuts just rot, unharvested, in the trees.).

Another major reason is relentless insurgency. In the southern Philippines -- my country's breadbasket -- we have had the scourge of Islamic terrorism and insurgency since the late 1960's. In the rest of the Philippines, there has been a continuous and small but damaging Marxist insurgency. There are also right-wing movements that have conducted at least 10 coups or revolts since 1986.

As for the Church itself, it is very small and overtstretched. Please realize that the Philippines has only a little more than 8,000 priests, some 12,000 nuns and 3,000 parishes serving a Catholic population nearly 70 million strong. The Church can only do so much given its own lack of human, financial and cultural resources.

Re: Why No Posts Against Hindu Violence [Re: Byzantine TX] #299607 09/15/08 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Byzantine TX
http://www.ucanews.com/2008/09/11/y...ian-violence-in-orissa/?key=buried+alive

...

The mob then began beating Rajesh, who fell down to the ground. While some continued to beat him, others dug a pit in a nearby field. As they dragged Rajesh toward it, he asked the attackers why they were burying him when he was still alive. They retorted, "Call your Jesus. He will save you." They then tied Rajesh, dumped him into the pit and covered it with mud.

Kamal said Tunguru, who watched the entire incident, recounted it all to him.

The extremists then turned to Tunguru, who kept insisting he was a Hindu. Nonetheless, they condemned him for befriending Christians, then poured kerosene on him and set him on fire. Tunguru fled to a nearby village where people helped douse the fire. According to Kamal, Tunguru suffered severe burns on his body.

...


Hinduism has been traditionally portrayed as a peaceful and tolerant religions. It is time to destroy the myth. The fact is that a religion that worships monkeys and elephants and deludes people about incarnation cannot be expected to put much value on human life, esp. on THIS life -- which, after all, is but one of many (perhaps millions) of lifetimes.

Remember that for St. Francis Xavier, Hindu gods are demons.

Re: Why No Posts Against Hindu Violence [Re: Yuhannon] #299977 09/22/08 04:58 PM
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Yuhannon Offline OP
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Shlomo Lkhoolkhoon,

Here is some sad news that I read today in the Asia News. The full story is provided in the link.

Catholic priest killed in Meerut diocese (Agra)

by Nirmala Carvalho
The clergyman lived like an Indian ascetic in an ashram, preaching peace and promoting inter-faith dialogue. Nothing is known of the motive behind the deed; police will not exclude a botched robbery attempt as the possible cause. The funeral is scheduled for tomorrow.


Fush BaShlomo Lkhoolkhoon,
Yuhannon

Re: Why No Posts Against Hindu Violence [Re: Yuhannon] #300046 09/23/08 04:51 PM
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Hindus worship snakes. That's probably what makes them two-faced. This goes to show, you are what you worship.

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