Vinolentus, RusOrthCath, Cavaradossi, Roman Interloper, ftbond, NitaMacdonald1930, SOL, etomaria, Kostyantyn, Benny, Ivanov325, DocH, andria, Joe Smith, CanuckK8
4466 Registered Users |
|
|
10 registered (Carson Daniel, Dave in McKinney, StuartK, Craig Dunford, Padraig, Peter J, JW55, Curious Joe, 2 invisible),
183
Guests and
3
Spiders online. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
4466 Members
26 Forums
30154 Topics
373710 Posts
Max Online: 1087 @ 07/16/07 01:09 PM
|
|
|
#301243 - 10/13/08 08:42 AM
Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes
[Re: Administrator]
|
Member
Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 146
Loc: Ruthenia
|
You are not alone, esteemed Administrator. Bishop John has responded to letters with demands of obedience to people who have complained. Lately he’s been less nasty so something may be cracking. Archbishop Basil simply does not respond.
Archbishop Basil does not want to talk about the RDL. If he knew the hullabaloo it would create he would never have promulgated it. He used to spout the line from Father Petras that no one will notice the changes. For the last year he has been telling people that the only reason he promulgated it is that Father Petras and the commission worked so hard on it. Bishop John pretty much says the same thing. Skurla seems as if he would have liked them to insert the Roman Canon.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#301374 - 10/13/08 11:32 PM
Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes
[Re: Matta]
|
Member
Registered: 05/10/07
Posts: 1056
Loc: Philippines
|
In modern Melkite usage, we tend to chant only one of the three or the antiphons. At major or important feasts and celebrations, we would chant all three. The choice is ours, by virtue of our synod. How is this done, how does it look like, and what is omitted?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#301473 - 10/14/08 05:00 PM
Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes
[Re: asianpilgrim]
|
Member
Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Australia
|
If we're chanting only one antipon, then we chant the first (with its variable verses based on the feast), followed by Hymn of the Incarnation. The Small Entrance finishes roughly in time with the ending of this hymn.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#301537 - 10/15/08 01:44 AM
Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes
[Re: Matta]
|
Member
Registered: 05/10/07
Posts: 1056
Loc: Philippines
|
If we're chanting only one antipon, then we chant the first (with its variable verses based on the feast), followed by Hymn of the Incarnation. The Small Entrance finishes roughly in time with the ending of this hymn. So, the Small Entrance actually occurs during the chanting of the FIRST Antiphon followed by the Monogenes? I'd like to know when the Melkite Synod decreed this reform of the Divine Liturgy. I haven't heard of it before.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#301610 - 10/15/08 03:37 PM
Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes
[Re: asianpilgrim]
|
Member
Registered: 03/15/06
Posts: 147
Loc: El Cerrito, CA
|
In the Ukrainian mission in Charlotte NC, we chant the typical psalms every sunday and the beatitudes. The typical psalms though are just a few select verses.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#301615 - 10/15/08 03:07 PM
Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes
[Re: asianpilgrim]
|
Member
Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Australia
|
The Book of the Gospels is lifted from the altar as the "Glory be to the Father" at the end of the last antiphon. Thus if there is one, the Hymn of the Incarnation is being chanted as the Small Entrance procession is taking place.
The Melkite synod decreed this in 1969. The synods are held and documented in Arabic (today), so you would find few references and certainly no text on the Internet.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#301617 - 10/15/08 03:13 PM
Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes
[Re: Matta]
|
Member
Registered: 08/21/07
Posts: 534
Loc: PA
|
The Book of the Gospels is lifted from the altar as the "Glory be to the Father" at the end of the last antiphon. Thus if there is one, the Hymn of the Incarnation is being chanted as the Small Entrance procession is taking place.
The Melkite synod decreed this in 1969. The synods are held and documented in Arabic (today), so you would find few references and certainly no text on the Internet. There really isn't enough good Melkite material on the Internet.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#301655 - 10/15/08 08:18 PM
Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes
[Re: Byzantine TX]
|
Member
Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 5599
Loc: Dublin
|
There's quite a bit of good Melkite material in circulation. But one must learn the Melkite national language (French, that is).
Fr. Serge
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#301684 - 10/16/08 07:20 AM
Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes
[Re: Fr Serge Keleher]
|
Member
Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Australia
|
Vous avez tout à fait raison, mon père!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#301767 - 10/17/08 12:05 PM
Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes
[Re: Matta]
|
Member
Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 5599
Loc: Dublin
|
Merci! Et que Dieu te benisse!
P. Serge
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#301860 - 10/18/08 01:25 AM
Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes
[Re: Fr. Deacon Lance]
|
Member
Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 7168
Loc: Kansas/UGCC
|
Among the Rusyns and Ukrainians the Typical Psalms and Beatitudes have become reserved for Great Lent. There are quite a few (and seemingly increasing) number of Ukrainian Greek Catholic and Orthodox parishes in North America that use the Typical Psalms and Beatitudes on regular Sundays. At English liturgies I generally always use them when festal Antiphons are not appointed. There is a catechetical hunger as well as great beauty in the regular singing of the Beatitudes at the Divine Liturgy. As for the Troparia at the Beatitudes, these are not generally done anymore outside of monasteries and the Old Rite. The Levkulic abbreviation of the Typical Psalms is an abbreviation of an abbreviation - it is shorter than the compressed verses of Psalms 102 and 145 given in the UGCC Synodal Liturgikon, which are essentially the same as those suggested in the OCA 1984 pew book as the usual parochial practice or in the Ukrainian Orthodox English books.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#301869 - 10/18/08 06:42 AM
Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes
[Re: Diak]
|
Member
Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 5599
Loc: Dublin
|
Serbian parishes seem to use the troparia at the Beatitudes.
Fr. Serge
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#301998 - 10/19/08 07:50 PM
Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes
[Re: Diak]
|
Member
Registered: 01/27/02
Posts: 1933
Loc: Sharon/Hermitage, PA
|
The Levkulic abbreviation of the Typical Psalms is an abbreviation of an abbreviation - it is shorter than the compressed verses of Psalms 102 and 145 given in the UGCC Synodal Liturgikon, which are essentially the same as those suggested in the OCA 1984 pew book as the usual parochial practice or in the Ukrainian Orthodox English books. I don't have a Levkulic book in front of me, but it is interesting to note that this "abbreviation" in older Rusyn books (Boksaj, for instance) is not, as some suppose, the first verse of the Psalm, but the final repeated verse of Psalm 102, after the "Slava... i nyni...." This coincides with the practice in Serbian and Romanian parishes of singing the final "Slava" and Psalm verse. Psalm Psalm 145 is omitted altogether. Dave
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#302014 - 10/19/08 10:29 PM
Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes
[Re: Chtec]
|
Member
Registered: 06/04/06
Posts: 79
Loc: Akron, OH
|
Is it permitted to use the typical psalms and the beatitudes at a weekday liturgy? Sometimes I am cantoring alone with the priest and I might want to try them.
We never use them on Sunday.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#302032 - 10/20/08 01:08 AM
Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes
[Re: CRW]
|
Member
Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 7168
Loc: Kansas/UGCC
|
Is it permitted to use the typical psalms and the beatitudes at a weekday liturgy? Sometimes I am cantoring alone with the priest and I might want to try them.
We never use them on Sunday. It is acceptable in the UGCC, although the weekday antiphons are often taken. There is a "simple" setting of both in our Anthology for a weekday Liturgy.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|