Newest Members
Vinolentus, RusOrthCath, Cavaradossi, Roman Interloper, ftbond, NitaMacdonald1930, SOL, etomaria, Kostyantyn, Benny, Ivanov325, DocH, andria, Joe Smith, CanuckK8
4466 Registered Users
Who's Online
10 registered (StuartK, Carson Daniel, JLF, Dave in McKinney, Craig Dunford, Padraig, Peter J, JW55, 2 invisible), 190 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Pascha Dublin 2012
Centennial of the Eparchy of Hajdudorog
Hierarchial Divine Liturgy at Holy Trinity Cathedral OCA SF
OLF: What a difference a day makes...
Easter Sunday - Pascha - Velik Den- St. Michael's, Binghamton,NY
Forum Stats
4466 Members
26 Forums
30154 Topics
373710 Posts

Max Online: 1087 @ 07/16/07 01:09 PM
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
#301243 - 10/13/08 08:42 AM Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes [Re: Administrator]
John Damascene Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 146
Loc: Ruthenia
You are not alone, esteemed Administrator. Bishop John has responded to letters with demands of obedience to people who have complained. Lately he’s been less nasty so something may be cracking. Archbishop Basil simply does not respond.

Archbishop Basil does not want to talk about the RDL. If he knew the hullabaloo it would create he would never have promulgated it. He used to spout the line from Father Petras that no one will notice the changes. For the last year he has been telling people that the only reason he promulgated it is that Father Petras and the commission worked so hard on it. Bishop John pretty much says the same thing. Skurla seems as if he would have liked them to insert the Roman Canon.

Top
#301374 - 10/13/08 11:32 PM Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes [Re: Matta]
asianpilgrim Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/07
Posts: 1056
Loc: Philippines
Originally Posted By: Matta
In modern Melkite usage, we tend to chant only one of the three or the antiphons.
At major or important feasts and celebrations, we would chant all three.
The choice is ours, by virtue of our synod.


How is this done, how does it look like, and what is omitted?

Top
#301473 - 10/14/08 05:00 PM Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes [Re: asianpilgrim]
Matta Offline
Member

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Australia
If we're chanting only one antipon, then we chant the first (with its variable verses based on the feast), followed by Hymn of the Incarnation. The Small Entrance finishes roughly in time with the ending of this hymn.

Top
#301537 - 10/15/08 01:44 AM Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes [Re: Matta]
asianpilgrim Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/07
Posts: 1056
Loc: Philippines
Originally Posted By: Matta
If we're chanting only one antipon, then we chant the first (with its variable verses based on the feast), followed by Hymn of the Incarnation. The Small Entrance finishes roughly in time with the ending of this hymn.


So, the Small Entrance actually occurs during the chanting of the FIRST Antiphon followed by the Monogenes?

I'd like to know when the Melkite Synod decreed this reform of the Divine Liturgy. I haven't heard of it before.

Top
#301610 - 10/15/08 03:37 PM Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes [Re: asianpilgrim]
GMmcnabb Offline
Member

Registered: 03/15/06
Posts: 147
Loc: El Cerrito, CA
In the Ukrainian mission in Charlotte NC, we chant the typical psalms every sunday and the beatitudes. The typical psalms though are just a few select verses.

Top
#301615 - 10/15/08 03:07 PM Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes [Re: asianpilgrim]
Matta Offline
Member

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Australia
The Book of the Gospels is lifted from the altar as the "Glory be to the Father" at the end of the last antiphon. Thus if there is one, the Hymn of the Incarnation is being chanted as the Small Entrance procession is taking place.

The Melkite synod decreed this in 1969. The synods are held and documented in Arabic (today), so you would find few references and certainly no text on the Internet.

Top
#301617 - 10/15/08 03:13 PM Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes [Re: Matta]
Byzantine TX Offline
Member

Registered: 08/21/07
Posts: 534
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: Matta
The Book of the Gospels is lifted from the altar as the "Glory be to the Father" at the end of the last antiphon. Thus if there is one, the Hymn of the Incarnation is being chanted as the Small Entrance procession is taking place.

The Melkite synod decreed this in 1969. The synods are held and documented in Arabic (today), so you would find few references and certainly no text on the Internet.


There really isn't enough good Melkite material on the Internet.

Top
#301655 - 10/15/08 08:18 PM Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes [Re: Byzantine TX]
Fr Serge Keleher Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 5599
Loc: Dublin
There's quite a bit of good Melkite material in circulation. But one must learn the Melkite national language (French, that is).

Fr. Serge

Top
#301684 - 10/16/08 07:20 AM Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes [Re: Fr Serge Keleher]
Matta Offline
Member

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Australia
Vous avez tout à fait raison, mon père!

Top
#301767 - 10/17/08 12:05 PM Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes [Re: Matta]
Fr Serge Keleher Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 5599
Loc: Dublin
Merci! Et que Dieu te benisse!

P. Serge

Top
#301860 - 10/18/08 01:25 AM Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes [Re: Fr. Deacon Lance]
Diak Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 7168
Loc: Kansas/UGCC
Quote:
Among the Rusyns and Ukrainians the Typical Psalms and Beatitudes have become reserved for Great Lent.


There are quite a few (and seemingly increasing) number of Ukrainian Greek Catholic and Orthodox parishes in North America that use the Typical Psalms and Beatitudes on regular Sundays. At English liturgies I generally always use them when festal Antiphons are not appointed.

There is a catechetical hunger as well as great beauty in the regular singing of the Beatitudes at the Divine Liturgy.

As for the Troparia at the Beatitudes, these are not generally done anymore outside of monasteries and the Old Rite.

The Levkulic abbreviation of the Typical Psalms is an abbreviation of an abbreviation - it is shorter than the compressed verses of Psalms 102 and 145 given in the UGCC Synodal Liturgikon, which are essentially the same as those suggested in the OCA 1984 pew book as the usual parochial practice or in the Ukrainian Orthodox English books.

Top
#301869 - 10/18/08 06:42 AM Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes [Re: Diak]
Fr Serge Keleher Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 5599
Loc: Dublin
Serbian parishes seem to use the troparia at the Beatitudes.

Fr. Serge

Top
#301998 - 10/19/08 07:50 PM Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes [Re: Diak]
Chtec Offline
Member

Registered: 01/27/02
Posts: 1933
Loc: Sharon/Hermitage, PA
Originally Posted By: Diak
The Levkulic abbreviation of the Typical Psalms is an abbreviation of an abbreviation - it is shorter than the compressed verses of Psalms 102 and 145 given in the UGCC Synodal Liturgikon, which are essentially the same as those suggested in the OCA 1984 pew book as the usual parochial practice or in the Ukrainian Orthodox English books.


I don't have a Levkulic book in front of me, but it is interesting to note that this "abbreviation" in older Rusyn books (Boksaj, for instance) is not, as some suppose, the first verse of the Psalm, but the final repeated verse of Psalm 102, after the "Slava... i nyni...."

This coincides with the practice in Serbian and Romanian parishes of singing the final "Slava" and Psalm verse. Psalm Psalm 145 is omitted altogether.

Dave

Top
#302014 - 10/19/08 10:29 PM Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes [Re: Chtec]
CRW Offline
Member

Registered: 06/04/06
Posts: 79
Loc: Akron, OH
Is it permitted to use the typical psalms and the beatitudes at a weekday liturgy? Sometimes I am cantoring alone with the priest and I might want to try them.

We never use them on Sunday.

Top
#302032 - 10/20/08 01:08 AM Re: Typika and Troparia of the Beatitudes [Re: CRW]
Diak Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 7168
Loc: Kansas/UGCC
Quote:
Is it permitted to use the typical psalms and the beatitudes at a weekday liturgy? Sometimes I am cantoring alone with the priest and I might want to try them.

We never use them on Sunday.


It is acceptable in the UGCC, although the weekday antiphons are often taken. There is a "simple" setting of both in our Anthology for a weekday Liturgy.


Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2



Moderator:  Father Anthony 

The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. Contents copyright - 1996-2012. All rights reserved.