The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
MagdalenaRuth, gepaul, Thomas Taylor, samson, Joseph Stitzel
5,667 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 members (Devin1890), 138 guests, and 186 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Byzantine Nebraska
Byzantine Nebraska
by orthodoxsinner2, December 11
Church of the Holy Trinity (UGCC) - Brazil
Church of the Holy Trinity (UGCC) - Brazil
by Santiago Tarsicio, March 17
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
by JLF, November 10
Upgraded Russian icon corner
Upgraded Russian icon corner
by The young fogey, October 20
Russian Greek Catholic Global Congress
Russian Greek Catholic Global Congress
by likethethief, June 12
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics34,892
Posts412,950
Members5,667
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,716
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,716
I suppose its a comfort that the Forum hasn't changed so much in my absence wink

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Quote
I suppose its a comfort that the Forum hasn't changed so much in my absence wink

That's what I thought as well... grin

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,264
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,264
Originally Posted by Brian
I suppose its a comfort that the Forum hasn't changed so much in my absence wink


LOL! Welcome back!

Fr. Deacon Daniel

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,264
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,264
His voting record is pretty solid, but I would say that he is not ideal in every respect. His choice of Sarah Palin certainly gives an even greater boost to his very solid list of pro-life credentials.

The NRL PAC has this in their communication, which cites some of his credentials:

National Right to Life PAC

Quote
“John McCain boasts one of the most consistent pro-life voting records in the Senate.” Newsweek, April 19, 2008

Senator John McCain has an exemplary voting record against abortion and has cast 31 pro-life votes since 1997. This includes voting for a bill that would prevent minor daughters from being taken across state lines for secret abortions without parental notice or consent, voting against taxpayer funding of abortion, and voting for a ban on the brutal partial-birth abortion procedure. He voted to confirm pro-life Justices Alito and Roberts. He has also voted against endorsing Roe v. Wade and believes it should be overturned.

In contrast, the presumptive nominee for the Democratic Party, Senator Barack Obama, has extreme positions and voting records in favor of abortion on demand. He strongly supports the appointment of only U.S. Supreme Court Justices who favor abortion on demand.

During the next presidency, one to three U.S. Supreme Court justices may retire, which will determine the direction of the Court for generations to come.

If Senator Barack Obama becomes President of the United States, hundreds of thousands more unborn children will likely die each year.

When Barack Obama was a state senator in Illinois, the issue of leaving newborns to die was hotly debated. According to sworn testimony, a hospital was performing “live birth abortions.” In this coldly calculated procedure, the abortionist gives the woman a drug to induce delivery. A living, wholly intact baby is born.

The baby isn’t given to his mother’s waiting arms to thrive and grow. He doesn’t go to a nursery. He doesn’t even receive any comfort care. The baby is put on a cold table and left to die.

Barack Obama had the chance to support legislation to ensure that babies who survive abortion are afforded the same legal protections as those who are spontaneously born prematurely. In fact, he had FOUR chances, but he refused to vote in favor of protecting these vulnerable lives all four times.

In sharp contrast, Senator John McCain voted in the U.S. Senate for the federal Born-Alive Infants Protection Act to require that children born alive following an abortion receive the same care provided to other premature infants.

Senator John McCain has publicly stated his opposition to abortion. To cite just a few:

• Talking about his pro-life voting record that goes back 25 years, McCain said in an interview last year with National Review, “I have many, many votes and it’s been consistent. And I’ve got a consistent zero from NARAL throughout all of those years... my record is clear. ... I’ve opposed [Roe v. Wade] ... because I thought it was a bad decision.”

• At the last March for Life rally, pro-life Senator Sam Brownback read a statement from McCain: “If I am fortunate enough to be elected as the next President of the United States, I pledge to you to be a loyal and unswerving friend of the right to life movement.”

• In mid-April McCain told MSNBC’s Chris Matthews, “The rights of the unborn is one of my most important values.”

To learn more on John McCain's pro-life record and to see some of his statements against abortion, visit www.prolifemccain.org. Read “A Closer Look at John McCain” and view fact sheets on his long opposition to abortion. Print a comparison of him with Barack Obama, the 2008 pro-abortion presidential candidate. All that, along with articles and voting tools, provided by the National Right to Life Political Action Committee, the political arm of the nation's largest pro-life organization.

The choice for president is clear. National Right to Life PAC supports John McCain for election as President of the United States. The country, our supporters, and the lives of the precious unborn need his leadership. STOP OBAMA and VOTE MCCAIN!



Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,373
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,373
Originally Posted by ebed melech
His voting record is pretty solid, but I would say that he is not ideal in every respect. His choice of Sarah Palin certainly gives an even greater boost to his very solid list of pro-life credentials.

The NRL PAC has this in their communication, which cites some of his credentials:

National Right to Life PAC

Quote
“John McCain boasts one of the most consistent pro-life voting records in the Senate.” Newsweek, April 19, 2008

Senator John McCain has an exemplary voting record against abortion and has cast 31 pro-life votes since 1997. This includes voting for a bill that would prevent minor daughters from being taken across state lines for secret abortions without parental notice or consent, voting against taxpayer funding of abortion, and voting for a ban on the brutal partial-birth abortion procedure. He voted to confirm pro-life Justices Alito and Roberts. He has also voted against endorsing Roe v. Wade and believes it should be overturned.

In contrast, the presumptive nominee for the Democratic Party, Senator Barack Obama, has extreme positions and voting records in favor of abortion on demand. He strongly supports the appointment of only U.S. Supreme Court Justices who favor abortion on demand.

During the next presidency, one to three U.S. Supreme Court justices may retire, which will determine the direction of the Court for generations to come.

If Senator Barack Obama becomes President of the United States, hundreds of thousands more unborn children will likely die each year.

When Barack Obama was a state senator in Illinois, the issue of leaving newborns to die was hotly debated. According to sworn testimony, a hospital was performing “live birth abortions.” In this coldly calculated procedure, the abortionist gives the woman a drug to induce delivery. A living, wholly intact baby is born.

The baby isn’t given to his mother’s waiting arms to thrive and grow. He doesn’t go to a nursery. He doesn’t even receive any comfort care. The baby is put on a cold table and left to die.

Barack Obama had the chance to support legislation to ensure that babies who survive abortion are afforded the same legal protections as those who are spontaneously born prematurely. In fact, he had FOUR chances, but he refused to vote in favor of protecting these vulnerable lives all four times.

In sharp contrast, Senator John McCain voted in the U.S. Senate for the federal Born-Alive Infants Protection Act to require that children born alive following an abortion receive the same care provided to other premature infants.

Senator John McCain has publicly stated his opposition to abortion. To cite just a few:

• Talking about his pro-life voting record that goes back 25 years, McCain said in an interview last year with National Review, “I have many, many votes and it’s been consistent. And I’ve got a consistent zero from NARAL throughout all of those years... my record is clear. ... I’ve opposed [Roe v. Wade] ... because I thought it was a bad decision.”

• At the last March for Life rally, pro-life Senator Sam Brownback read a statement from McCain: “If I am fortunate enough to be elected as the next President of the United States, I pledge to you to be a loyal and unswerving friend of the right to life movement.”

• In mid-April McCain told MSNBC’s Chris Matthews, “The rights of the unborn is one of my most important values.”

To learn more on John McCain's pro-life record and to see some of his statements against abortion, visit www.prolifemccain.org. Read “A Closer Look at John McCain” and view fact sheets on his long opposition to abortion. Print a comparison of him with Barack Obama, the 2008 pro-abortion presidential candidate. All that, along with articles and voting tools, provided by the National Right to Life Political Action Committee, the political arm of the nation's largest pro-life organization.

The choice for president is clear. National Right to Life PAC supports John McCain for election as President of the United States. The country, our supporters, and the lives of the precious unborn need his leadership. STOP OBAMA and VOTE MCCAIN!




OK, so we vote McCain into office. How long can we legitimately wait for him and his fellow Republican Pro-Life politicians to over turn Roe vs. Wade?

Ung

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,398
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,398
I'm curious about this claim: Torture is wrong, but not in the same league as murder of innocents through abortion.

I'm not sure that I agree. Torture, in my mind, is just as henious if not more so than murder.

Joe

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 299
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 299
Judges have to be put on the bench. A courtcase has to be sent up through the courts and then when it gets to the supreme court it can be overturned. That is why I will vote for McCain. His judges will be pro-life and Obama's will not.

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 299
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 299
McCain was tortured and has said over and over he opposes it. The difference is the Gitmo inmate is alive and the baby is dead.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,759
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,759
Originally Posted by Michael_Thoma
If a Republican President with a Republican lead House and Senate cannot get a pro-life Justice confirmed - that leads me to believe that the goal wasn't to get it done in the first place. Which goes to my premise that only a pro-life Democrat can get realistically this done.


Michael,
The problem is that it requires a two-thirds vote of the Senate to close a fillibuster and the pro-abortion Democrat minority always blocked a vote. So any nominee has to tiptoe around the Roe v Wade debate.
A simple majority in the Senate (in practice) cannot even bring about a vote for a Supreme Court nominee. This in itself should be motivation for every Catholic voter to NEVER vote for a Democrat senatorial candidate until the Democrat party changes its platform and leadership.

Fr. Deacon Paul

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,759
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,759
Originally Posted by Ung-Certez
Originally Posted by MrsMW
For the record Senator Casey says he is pro-life but will not confirm any judge who is against Roe vs Wade. A far cry from his Father of Blessed memory.

Republicans could only do so much. Have they done enough? Heavans no. Look at Clinton's record. Look at what Obama has done. Look at McCain's voting record. Look at what the both plan on doing if elected.


But future Democratic Party presidential candidate Bob Casey Jr. could appoint openly Pro-Life Supreme Court justices.

Ung


Ung,

I'm afraid Bob Casey, Jr has betrayed us and his father. He voted to overturn the Mexico City policy http://nrlc.www.capwiz.com/nrlc/issues/votes/?votenum=319&chamber=S&congress=1101 which would allow foreign aid for countries allowing abortion to be used as a birth control method.

Fr. Deacon Paul

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,373
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,373
...So the question remains that a Republican President doesn't have a realistic chance to overturn Roe vs. Wade because:

a.) Having an openly Pro-Life Supreme Court Justice be appointed and then be confirmed is practically impossible.

b.) Because a Pro-Choice Democratic Senate will always block
Pro-Life legislation.

Then it really doesn't matter who is President, that it would be better to vote for Pro-Life Republican Senators and Congressmen? Would this be a correct assumption?

Ung

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Quote
That is why I will vote for McCain. His judges will be pro-life and Obama's will not.


There is very little evidence to support this assertion from what McCain has actually stated publically. He has recently stated publicly that there is no pro-life "litmus test" for his judicial appointees.

Rudy Guiliani flying around waving McCain's flag doesn't make me feel any better in the pro-life department.

It may be that McCain has private views or will "sneak" in something. I would rather see up front what someone stands for, hear it from his/her face rather than engaging in a sort of Machiavellian roulette to see what he comes up with under the table.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,759
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,759
Originally Posted by Ung-Certez
...So the question remains that a Republican President doesn't have a realistic chance to overturn Roe vs. Wade because:

a.) Having an openly Pro-Life Supreme Court Justice be appointed and then be confirmed is practically impossible.

b.) Because a Pro-Choice Democratic Senate will always block
Pro-Life legislation.

Then it really doesn't matter who is President, that it would be better to vote for Pro-Life Republican Senators and Congressmen? Would this be a correct assumption?

Ung


You have stated very well the short-term assumption of most voters. However, looking into the future of an Obama presidency, lets consider:

Obama's promise that any Supreme Court nominee respect Roe v Wade.
The prospect of anoter "Janet Reno" type Attorney General who will make praying in front of an abortion clinic a federal crime, and in fact add double jeopardy by making it a "hate crime."
Add "radical education" as Eduction funding. This will teach elementary school children that homosexual marriage is acceptable, that abortion (expecially chemical) is an acceptable means of birth control and that Catholic schools must accept these principles in order to accept funding.
Allow federal funding of social security, food stamps, welfare, etc. for homosexual "spouses" as dependents.
Sign a FOCA bill which will PROHIBIT any regulation of abortion, abortion clinics, ban "informed consent" laws.
Promote UN funding for population control throughout the world, penalizing countries like Mexico, Poland and the Moslem world which disagree.
Begin the process which will eventually allow and even fund euthanasia. http://www.nrlc.org/press_releases_new/Release022708.html (This article quotes Obama's regret at allowing Terry Schindler Schiavo's parents access to Federal Court to save the life of their daughter.

If Obama is elected look for a nightmare four years for respect for human life.

With regard to Supreme Court Justices, even with the obstacles, Pres Bush has managed to appoint pro-life Supreme Court justice Sam Alito.

S'bohom
Fr Deacon Paul

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Quote
With regard to Supreme Court Justices, even with the obstacles, Pres Bush has managed to appoint pro-life Supreme Court justice Sam Alito.


And no decrease in abortions can be attributed solely to a Bush presidency. Not one. And that with a Republican majority in both houses of Congress for a time.

This make-up of the Supreme Court as well as a Republican congress AND President WAS the opportunity to make real "pro-life" statements and actions. The inaction is now history.

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 90
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 90
Quote

And no decrease in abortions can be attributed solely to a Bush presidency. Not one.


Do forgive me Diak, but I believe this claim to be false. President Bush's re-establishment of the Mexico City Policy (which forbids the giving of american taxpayer dollars to foreign organizations that perform abortions or lobby for legalizing abortion) would certainly decrease the number of abortions performed. This policy was instituted by Reagan, abolished by Clinton, and re-established by George W. Bush. Also, his signing of the Partial Birth Abortion Act in 2003 would also prevent at least some abortions from taking place.

I do believe that we've been "played" to some extent by the Republican party as they seem to have gotten used to our votes, as in the long run they haven't really make too much headway regarding this issue that so many hold dear to their heart.

In Christ,
Aaron

Page 2 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2020 (Forum 1998-2020). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5