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JOE:

Christ is in our midst!! He is and always will be!!

I think we're moving off topic here. The topic is "Are Republican politicians really Pro-Life???" I think that a character analysis of one of the candidates steps a bit toward a tangent that has little to do with the pro-life querry. I note that the writer you cite begins with "troopergate" as the media has termed it. That has nothing to do with pro-life.

If you wish to begin another thread with the subject of the candidate's veracity, please do, but remember the forum's requirement for basic Christian charity no matter what we may think of the person.

In Christ,

BOB

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Not very objective journalism, I would say about "the Atlantic." Most of the subject material is political hype which is performed by most national candidates and should be condemned by voters of both parties.

Regarding Ung's opening question, Pres Bush SUCCESSFULLY nominated Justices Alito and Roberts (I mistakenly excluded Roberts in my previous post.) Without this pro-life trend in the Supreme Court it is unlikely that South Dakota would have passed its "Informed Consent" Law which was upheld by the US 8th Circuit Court just this past June.

This law is amazingly "different" because it calls the baby a member of "homo sapiens" which must infuriate pro-aborts. http://www.jmls.edu/faculty_pages/schwinn/pdf/PlannedParenthoodvRounds.pdf

Here is an excerpt from the decision:
. The disclosure actually mandated by § 7(1)(b), in concert with the definition in §8(4), is “[t]hat the abortion will terminate the life of a whole, separate, unique, living human being,” and that “human being” in this case means “an individual living member of the species of Homo sapiens ... during [its] embryonic [or] fetal age[ ].” The State's evidence suggests that the biological sense in which the embryo or fetus is whole, separate, unique and living should be clear in context to a physician, and Planned Parenthood submitted no evidence to oppose that conclusion. Indeed, Dr. Wolpe's affidavit, submitted by Planned Parenthood, states that “to describe an embryo or fetus scientifically and factually, one would say that a living embryo or fetus in utero is a developing organism of the species Homo Sapiens which may become a self-sustaining member of the species if no organic or environmental incident interrupts its
gestation.” This statement appears to support the State's evidence on the biological underpinnings of § 7(1)(b) and the associated statutory definition. Planned Parenthood's only
other evidence, Dr. Ball's affidavit, ignores the statutory definition of “human being.” Finally, this biological information about the fetus is at least as relevant to the patient's decision to have an abortion as the gestational age of the fetus, which was deemed to be relevant in Casey. As a result, Planned Parenthood cannot meet even the less rigorous requirement to show a fair chance of prevailing, much less the more rigorous requirement applicable here to show that it is likely to prevail, on the merits of its claim that the disclosure required by § 7(1)(b) is untruthful, misleading or not relevant to the decision to have an abortion.

Planned Parenthood also contends that ¶ 2 of the Act,requiring the physician to certify in writing that he or she “believes [the patient] understands the information imparted,” does not
allow a physician to disassociate himself or herself from the required disclosure in § 7(1)(b). . . .Because Planned Parenthood has failed to demonstrate the requisite likelihood of success on its claim that the disclosure required by § 7(1)(b) is untruthful or misleading, it has not demonstrated that there is an ideological message from which physicians need to disassociate


The abortion industry and its allies realizes that it is starting to lose the battle and must elect Obama to turn the tide with executive orders, appointments, budgeting and Washington propaganda.

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Bob,

Fair enough. I'm sorry about throwing the thread off topic.

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Here is the Republican Platform on two vital issues, Life and Marriage. Note particularly that the Republicans want the unborn to get the protection accorded under the 14th Amendment. Bravo!


Quote
Maintaining The Sanctity and Dignity of Human Life

Faithful to the first guarantee of the Declaration of Independence, we assert the inherent dignity and sanctity of all human life and affirm that the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution, and we endorse legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children. We oppose using public revenues to promote or perform abortion and will not fund organizations which advocate it. We support the appointment of judges who respect traditional family values and the sanctity and dignity of innocent human life.

We have made progress. The Supreme Court has upheld prohibitions against the barbaric practice of partial-birth abortion. States are now permitted to extend health-care coverage to children before birth. And the Born Alive Infants Protection Act has become law; this law ensures that infants who are born alive during an abortion receive all treatment and care that is provided to all newborn infants and are not neglected and left to die. We must protect girls from exploitation and statutory rape through a parental notification requirement. We all have a moral obligation to assist, not to penalize, women struggling with the challenges of an unplanned pregnancy. At its core, abortion is a fundamental assault on the sanctity of innocent human life. Women deserve better than abortion. Every effort should be made to work with women considering abortion to enable and empower them to choose life. We salute those who provide them alternatives, including pregnancy care centers, and we take pride in the tremendous increase in adoptions that has followed Republican legislative initiatives.

Respect for life requires efforts to include persons with disabilities in education, employment, the justice system, and civic participation. In keeping with that commitment, we oppose the non-consensual withholding of care or treatment from people with disabilities, as well as the elderly and infirm, just as we oppose euthanasia and assisted suicide, which endanger especially those on the margins of society. Because government should set a positive standard in hiring and contracting for the services of persons with disabilities, we need to update the statutory authority for the AbilityOne program, the main avenue by which those productive members of our society can offer high quality services at the best possible value.

Top
Preserving Traditional Marriage

Because our children’s future is best preserved within the traditional understanding of marriage, we call for a constitutional amendment that fully protects marriage as a union of a man and a woman, so that judges cannot make other arrangements equivalent to it. In the absence of a national amendment, we support the right of the people of the various states to affirm traditional marriage through state initiatives.

Republicans recognize the importance of having in the home a father and a mother who are married. The two-parent family still provides the best environment of stability, discipline, responsibility, and character. Children in homes without fathers are more likely to commit a crime, drop out of school, become violent, become teen parents, use illegal drugs, become mired in poverty, or have emotional or behavioral problems. We support the courageous efforts of single-parent families to provide a stable home for their children. Children are our nation’s most precious resource. We also salute and support the efforts of foster and adoptive families.

Republicans have been at the forefront of protecting traditional marriage laws, both in the states and in Congress. A Republican Congress enacted the Defense of Marriage Act, affirming the right of states not to recognize same-sex “marriages” licensed in other states. Unbelievably, the Democratic Party has now pledged to repeal the Defense of Marriage Act, which would subject every state to the redefinition of marriage by a judge without ever allowing the people to vote on the matter. We also urge Congress to use its Article III, Section 2 power to prevent activist federal judges from imposing upon the rest of the nation the judicial activism in Massachusetts and California. We also encourage states to review their marriage and divorce laws in order to strengthen marriage.

As the family is our basic unit of society, we oppose initiatives to erode parental rights.

Here is the Democratic Platform on the same issues.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/apache.3cdn.net/8a738445026d1d5f0f_bcm6b5l7a.pdf

See pages 50 and 51. I couldn't paste them.

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What makes a "platform" enforceable? There are obvious pro-choice Republicans like Arnold, Spector, and Guiliani who haven't yet been rejected.. so..? There are also openly pro-life Democrats like Ray Flynn, Tim Roemer, and Dan Lipinski...

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Well, it's a moot point. I already mailed in my absentee ballot yesterday. Maybe the Republicans can do a better job of convincing me they are Pro-Life in 2012.

Ung

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Abortion will end when people's hearts are converted. Even overturning Roe vs Wade would just move it back to the States. It would not change one mind or stop one abortion.

The GOP has done nothing for the Pro-Life movement especially the man who gave so much lip service to the movement, Ronald Reagan.

Who is more consistantly pro-life (Abortion, Death penalty, euthanasia, war,) ?

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President Reagan did a lot for the Pro-Life movement. If Brian and the others would drop their blind hatred for anything Conservative maybe he'd be able to see the facts clearly. 4,000 Americans are murdered each day because of the politicians Brian supports. There are not 4,000 humans killed each day if you combine those killed by the death penalty, euthanasia, and the just wars to liberate Afghanistan and Iraq. And I remind Brian that it was the Democrats who support things like euthanasia. Abortion is the Sacrament of the Democrat Party. Brian should download President Reagan's "Treatise for Life" and read it rather then pretending it doesn't exist or that the man was worse on abortion then the Democrats.

Reagan Championed Pro-life Causes

Jon E. Dougherty
Friday, June 11, 2004

On the 10th anniversary of the Supreme Court's controversial 1973 decision legalizing abortion, President Ronald Reagan wrote a treatise celebrating life and challenging the nation to examine its soul regarding the procedure.

It was a book that, had his advisers gotten their way, would never have been written.

William P. Clark, a national security adviser and secretary of the Interior Department under Reagan, told CNSNews.com the 40th president insisted that the publication of "Abortion and the Conscience of the Nation," a tome that began as an essay, was essential.

"He said, 'No, it's the truth, and we're going to go with it," said Clark, who wrote the book's foreword.

The book was a first in many ways. For one, it was the first book ever published by a sitting president. For another, it was a bold step politically. At the time of its publication, Reagan and his vice president, George H.W. Bush, were struggling to rebuild the nation's slumping economy and set to launch a re-election effort. Polls showed about half the nation backed abortion.

That didn't matter to Reagan, who, regardless of his political aspirations, was regarded by many who knew him to be a man of principle. Clark said Reagan came to realize abortion was morally wrong while serving as California's governor.

'Sanctity of Life'

"Every legislator, every doctor, and every citizen needs to recognize that the real issue is whether to affirm and protect the sanctity of all human life, or to embrace a social ethic where some human lives are valued and others are not," Reagan wrote in his book. "As a nation, we must choose between the sanctity of life ethic and the 'quality of life' ethic."

Reagan's awakening came after he signed a bill as governor liberalizing California's abortion laws. That, of course, led to a surge in abortions.

"When he realized that it helped open the gates to abortion in California, he was very upset," Clark told CNSNews.com. "He said it was the biggest mistake he made in government. He tried to square it away as time went on."

Since that legislation, Reagan made his commitment to the "integrity of the human person," as he wrote in his book.

Other pro-life organizations have praised Reagan for his opposition to abortion.

"It is with great sadness that we say goodbye to our dear friend, President Ronald Wilson Reagan. There is little question that Ronald Reagan will be remembered as one of the greatest presidents in our country's history," said Judie Brown, president of American Life League, the nation's largest pro-life grassroots educational organization.

"We are particularly grateful for his steadfast effort to restore the dignity inherent to each and every human being's life through his Personhood Proclamations in 1984 and 1988," Brown said.

"It is our sincere hope that as President Reagan enjoys his rest in that eternal 'shining city' he often spoke of, that God will allow his courage and leadership to serve as an inspiration to a new generation of leaders who are willing to take up the cause that is at the heart of liberty and prosperity: the undeniable personhood and right to life of every human being, born and pre-born."

Joe Scheidler, national director of Pro-Life Action League, said he had hoped Reagan could have done more for the pro-life cause, but he was able to sign a number of bills curbing abortion and, at the end of his second term, expressed dismay that Roe vs. Wade was still the law of the land.

Record of Accomplishment

Still, Reagan did many things to support pro-life causes. Among them:

# He supported legislation that would allow for a challenge of Roe vs. Wade.

# He adopted the "Mexico City Policy" halting federal aid to private groups promoting abortions abroad.

# His administration cut off funding to the United Nations Fund for Population Activities because the global agency violated U.S. law by participating in China's mandatory abortion program.

# His administration adopted regulations prohibiting federally funded "family planning clinics" from promoting abortion as birth control.

# The Reagan White House blocked use of federal money for research using the tissue of aborted babies.

# It helped win approval of the "Danforth Amendment," which said federally funded educational institutions could not be guilty of "sex discrimination" for refusing to pay for abortions.

# Reagan himself introduced the issue of fetal pain into the public debate over abortion.

# His administration was key in enactment of laws protecting the right to life of handicapped newborns.

# Reagan designated a National Sanctity of Human Life Day, to recognize the value of life at all stages.

Abuse of Life Legacy

Reagan himself once said, "My administration is dedicated to the preservation of America as a free land, and there is no cause more important for preserving that freedom than affirming the transcendent right to life of all human beings, the right without which no other rights have meaning."

In a piece for Human Life Review, he wrote, "Make no mistake, abortion-on-demand is not a right granted by the Constitution ... No serious scholar, including one disposed to agree with the court's result, has argued that the framers of the Constitution intended to create such a right."

Yet now, after his death, many are using his battle with Alzheimer's to argue against President Bush's executive order banning the creation of stem cells from human embryos, including his widow, Nancy Reagan.

Opponents of such research say it's an immoral abuse of life because the human embryos are destroyed. Some observers note that pro-abortion forces are using the issue to attack the president.

"Serious people have serious disagreements about the balancing of the hope stem cell research holds for curing Alzheimer's versus the misuse of human life, but to leading media figures it presents just another way to bash Bush," says Brent Baker of Media Research Center.

Steven Ertelt, news editor for LifeNews.com, wrote Tuesday that Washington Post television reviewer Tom Shales complained in a piece Sunday about how "Bush has refused to reconsider his opposition" to making taxpayers fund additional research on human embryos and ridiculed how "Bush thinks he hears Jesus giving him orders."

Ertelt speculates that Reagan, as president, would have adopted a policy similar to Bush's.

Baker concludes the major media are piling on. "Leading journalists are exploiting Ronald Reagan's death to push for wider embryonic stem cell research as they emphasize how President George W. Bush is out of step with Nancy Reagan on the issue," he wrote.

Stand on Principles

At the end of the day, however, it was Reagan's staunch opposition to abortion that inspired millions of Americans to join him, pro-life advocates say.

"Reagan did not think in terms of risks. This is what was so awesome about him as a man. He did what was right," Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue, told CNSNews.com. "That was Ronald Reagan. If he believed it, he said it. And if he said it, he acted on it."

The Rev. Frank Pavone, director of Priests for Life, said that Reagan made a tremendous contribution to the pro-life cause because of his beliefs.

"He had a saying on a paperweight on his desk that said, 'It's amazing how much we can get done when we don't care who gets the credit,'" Pavone said. "And that was his spirit when dealing with [abortion]. If criticism comes, if political prices have to be paid, the number one thing he needed to do was bear witness to this moral truth."

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Originally Posted by Brian
Abortion will end when people's hearts are converted. Even overturning Roe vs Wade would just move it back to the States. It would not change one mind or stop one abortion.

The GOP has done nothing for the Pro-Life movement especially the man who gave so much lip service to the movement, Ronald Reagan.

Who is more consistantly pro-life (Abortion, Death penalty, euthanasia, war,) ?

Brian,

A few points.

Abortion will end when people are converted, as will war, poverty, discrimination and all crime.

So what is your point?

By overturning Roe v. Wade and having it remanded back to the States, the powers that be in "Big Abortion" will be forced to fight their battles state by state. Abortion was thrust upon the people through the courts, not through their elected representatives. Turning it back over to the states is the best chance we have of severely limiting if not eliminating altogether the scourge of abortion.

Finally, your views on this issue are skewed by your party politics. Republicans have done nothing? The facts cited quite frequently do not reflect that view at all.

And what is the alternative? We see that the DNC (appropriately named) has certainly done its share to promote abortion on demand, and in the case of Barack Hussein Obama, infanticide in Illinois. Would you like to see the list of criminal advocacy we see going on there?

In ICXC,

Fr. Deacon Daniel

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Neither side is very good on the subject, though clearly one is worse. I have a guess as to what the very first action of the new presidency will be, and it will come with a single stroke of a pen.

What I think we should be more worried about are what's going to happen to the economy, the judiciary, the Constitution (listen to the 2001 NPR interview) and potentially even free speech (if the fairness doctrine comes back) when it seems what appears to be inevitable happens next week.

We should be prepared for the super majority.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122420205889842989.html

The damage I think will be lasting.

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I agree that the damage will be on a number of levels and will take decades to repair...

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folks, we are adults here, at least i think we are. political progress is not by fiat, like a child wishing for things to happen. political progress is measured by ten steps forward and nine steps backwards, true, you lost nine steps, but nevertheless, you are one step ahead of where you were.while many politicos have used the Pro Life movement in a cynical way, there are still those who wish to do something. give them the benefit of a doubt, the goods one are out there.the frauds you can toss out on their hinies if you assert yourselves.
much love,
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Abortion will end when people's hearts are converted.


True. And in the meantime, it's best that we vote for those who will do what they can to make sure that laws (and judges) are in place to protect the unborn.


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Fr. Deacon Daniel,

Are you located near the Chicago area? If so, just this week I heard a Republican (Mark Kirk) debate a Democrat (Dan Seals) on the radio touting his pro-choice record as a "shining example" of his leadership. Illinois Republicans are closer to National and Southern Democrats than other Republicans

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