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Eastern - Rite Anglicans and Old Catholics? #304726 11/19/08 08:26 AM
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asianpilgrim Offline OP
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Are there Eastern-Rite Anglicans and Old Catholics?

The Mar Thomas are in communion with the Anglicans, but they are not "Anglicans" really, are they? (And I hear that their orders are held by Rome as valid)

Re: Eastern - Rite Anglicans and Old Catholics? [Re: asianpilgrim] #304729 11/19/08 10:28 AM
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Fr Serge Keleher Offline
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There are one or two ecclesial communities derived from the Mar Thoma Christians who are in communion with the Anglicans (or were; I don't know what may have happened recently) and I suppose could be called "Eastern-Rite Anglicans", though I've not heard the phrase used in that context. A few Anglican clergy in England seem to have been given "faculties" by these ecclesial communities to offer their Liturgy.

Fr. Serge

Re: Eastern - Rite Anglicans and Old Catholics? [Re: Fr Serge Keleher] #304743 11/19/08 03:35 PM
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Collin Nunis Offline
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Father bless!

But again Father, the title "Mar Thoma Christians" refers also to Syro-Malankara Catholics/Orthodox, and Syro-Malabar Catholics. This church that we're referring to is known as the Mar Thoma Church and it is the only one at present moment, in communion with the Anglicans. Their theology is Reformed (and have adopted more contemporary Protestant ideas over the years) while maintaining a Syriac-based liturgy. Like the Anglicans, theology on the Eucharist can differ but so far, in Malaysia, the thelogy of the Eucharist is Calvinist-leaning.

Re: Eastern - Rite Anglicans and Old Catholics? [Re: Collin Nunis] #304744 11/19/08 03:40 PM
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Orthodox Catholic Offline
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Bless Father Archimandrite!

First of all, a Happy Gregorian Calendar feast of Sts Barlaam and Joasaph to you! That brings back memories for me!

There is a group of Anglicans who apparently feel that the Byzantine tradition is also their own due to the influence of St Theodore, Archbishop of Canterbury, who was Greek.

I will see if I can look up more about them.

Kissing your right hand, I again implore your blessing,

Alex

Re: Eastern - Rite Anglicans and Old Catholics? [Re: Collin Nunis] #304777 11/19/08 07:14 PM
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Fr Serge Keleher Offline
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Well, I wrote "derived from the Mar Thoma Christians", which implies that they are not the totality of Mar Thoma Christians.

Fr. Serge

Re: Eastern - Rite Anglicans and Old Catholics? [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #304778 11/19/08 07:17 PM
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Fr Serge Keleher Offline
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Both the Gregorian Calendar and Barlaam & Joasaph are on the dubious list.

I seem to remember that back in the nineteen-fifties there were one or two parishes somewhere in the US north-east which had been Eastern Orthodox but somehow joined the local Episcopal diocese. Don't know where to look for further information on it.

Fr. Serge

Re: Eastern - Rite Anglicans and Old Catholics? [Re: Fr Serge Keleher] #307908 12/22/08 03:49 PM
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Re: Eastern - Rite Anglicans and Old Catholics? [Re: AMM] #307911 12/22/08 04:20 PM
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Our Lady's slave Offline
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It's running in my mind that we have discussed this particular Group in the past .

I don't think they came from Orthodoxy but they are certainly a little strange in some of their practices - the dancing 'icons' and their choice of Saints for them.

Not my cup of tea frown

Re: Eastern - Rite Anglicans and Old Catholics? [Re: Our Lady's slave] #307930 12/22/08 08:04 PM
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The young fogey Offline
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No, St Gregory of Nyssa Episcopal Church didn't come from Orthodoxy or even from the vagantes where such eclecticism is common; they've always been Episcopalians and experimental, which in this case means appropriating bibs and bobs of Orthodox and other Eastern liturgies that they like.

They're obviously not in communion with the catholic churches and wrong about some things - in short eccentric Protestants - but I've never hated them like I'm expected to! They're talented and mean well.

The Mar Thoma Church (protestantised breakaway from the Malankara Church during British rule in India) is invited to Lambeth and in communion with but not counted as literally part of the Anglican Communion. Which functionally really means 'Eastern-rite Anglicans', the only such in the world really.

The late Canon Edward West at New York's Cathedral Church of St John the Divine, though he liberalised along with the Episcopal Church in his last years, was a longtime friend of the Serbian Orthodox in that city, helping them get their cathedral, St Sava's, a redundant Episcopal building. He used to suit up and do the Byzantine Liturgy in a side chapel at St John the Divine not to pass himself off as Orthodox but more as a tribute and for his own edification.

Re: Eastern - Rite Anglicans and Old Catholics? [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #307931 12/22/08 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Orthodox Catholic
There is a group of Anglicans who apparently feel that the Byzantine tradition is also their own due to the influence of St Theodore, Archbishop of Canterbury, who was Greek.

Is this the British Orthodox Church which is part of the Miaphysite tradition and comprises a diocese of the Coptic Orthodox Church?

http://www.britishorthodox.org/

Re: Eastern - Rite Anglicans and Old Catholics? [Re: Hieromonk Ambrose] #307936 12/22/08 08:53 PM
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Bless, Father Hieromonk!

The British Orthodox are "their own people" but certainly the presence of St Theodore of Canterbury and the Greek tradition within the "Anglicana Ecclesia" is appropriated by them.

There has always been an "Eastern Rite" tendency in Anglicans with their appreciation of their "rood screens" and the fact that Anglican cathedrals and churches, from the beginning when they were united with the undivided Church, were awash in brightly painted icons and the like. This would also explain the 19th century talks with Russian Orthodoxy, as you know, that resulted in specific ways to make the Anglican heritage of the post-Reformation era into an acceptable rite of Orthodoxy.

However, other explanations for Anglican/Old Catholic links with Orthodoxy include their desire to possess full Orders and Sacraments (via economia) from Orthodoxy while maintaining themselves as independent Western ecclesial communities.

Alex


Re: Eastern - Rite Anglicans and Old Catholics? [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #307938 12/22/08 09:06 PM
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I have very recently met a member of that Site - http://www.britishorthodox.org/

And he certainly describes himself as a Copt - he knows I am UGCC

Re: Eastern - Rite Anglicans and Old Catholics? [Re: asianpilgrim] #393269 04/13/13 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by asianpilgrim
Are there Eastern-Rite Anglicans and Old Catholics?

The Mar Thomas are in communion with the Anglicans, but they are not "Anglicans" really, are they? (And I hear that their orders are held by Rome as valid)


We've noticed on this forum and several others a great deal of questioning and buzz around the idea of Eastern Rite Anglicans. In response to this we are planning the launch of the Society for Eastern Rite Anglicanism (SERA).

The URL for our website is: http://www.EasternAnglicanism.org
On the website you can sign up for our email list- to get notification of the website launch and you can donate towards our indiegogo campaign to help us found as nonprofit.

We have a Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/EasternAnglicanism/
There's a lively discussion going on there about SERA

Several people have also blogged about this:
http://mysticpathways.blogspot.com/2013/04/eastern-rite-anglican-communion.html
http://haligweorc.wordpress.com/2013/04/08/eastern-anglicanism/
http://www.fatherchristopher.org/?p=476

Hopefully this society will gather people with similar interest of Eastern Rite Anglicanism to help explore the idea further and share resources and ideas.

-SERA

Re: Eastern - Rite Anglicans and Old Catholics? [Re: asianpilgrim] #393341 04/16/13 10:32 AM
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Roman Interloper Offline
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Some of the more interesting "dancing saints" I noticed were William Shakespeare, Lady Godiva, Thurgood Marshall, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Mahatma Gandhi, Queen Lilioukalani of Hawaii...and a bear (Smokey, perhaps?).

I must say I'm baffled by the very concept of "Eastern Rite Anglicanism". The term seems to makes no sense whatsoever.

Re: Eastern - Rite Anglicans and Old Catholics? [Re: Roman Interloper] #393344 04/16/13 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Roman Interloper
Some of the more interesting "dancing saints" I noticed were William Shakespeare, Lady Godiva, Thurgood Marshall, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Mahatma Gandhi, Queen Lilioukalani of Hawaii...and a bear (Smokey, perhaps?).

I must say I'm baffled by the very concept of "Eastern Rite Anglicanism". The term seems to makes no sense whatsoever.

Makes perfect sense, if you buy Anglicanism in the first place. In the case of the Indian church, it isn't much different from the sui juris churches of Vatican II.

There has been a Byzantine rite Lutheran church for some time (since at least 1933). Here is their version of the DL of St. John:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/saintsophiaseminary/liturgy.html

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