The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
Poliscifi, The Cub, P H, Hardrada, DMP
5603 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 61 guests, and 460 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Church of the Holy Trinity (UGCC) - Brazil
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
Upgraded Russian icon corner
Russian Greek Catholic Global Congress
OL EuroEast II (2007) Group
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics34,738
Posts411,958
Members5,603
Most Online2,716
Jun 7th, 2012
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: What is meaning of a white cross? [Re: Ray Kaliss] #306258 12/06/08 06:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 6,461
theophan Offline
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 6,461
ray:

Christ is in our midst!! He is and always will be!!

I'd have to give a second to the posts you've received. Don't read a lot into this. The fact that you have seen a white cross or any cross should be seen as a blessing, but also seen as a warning. Remember the the Enemy can disguise himself as an angel of light to puff us up for a fall.

Thank God you recognized a white cross, remember He is the source of our hope through His Cross, and let it not be something that stops your pilgrimage.

In Christ,

BOB

Re: What is meaning of a white cross? [Re: Prester John] #306270 12/06/08 11:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 510
R
Ray Kaliss Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 510
Originally Posted by Prester John

I wouldn't read more into it than that. You open yourself to spiritual fancy.


Yes. Such things (the unusual) are at times a part of life - but not an escape from life.

I go to work on work days, I have my responsibilities at home, I enjoy a good movie about once a week, I like eggs for breakfast, .. and there was a white cross on my fence for two days.

There is no reason to be afraid of such things ... nor any reason to forgot one's place in life and go chasing such things.

Some night time dreams also have great meaning and when we (any of us) might have them - we all do ponder them for awhile as to a possible meaning. A man who ignores his dreams is just as empty of the meaning of life .. as the man who lives in his dreams.

So for awhile I pondered what possible meaning the white cross might have within the context of my life journey.

Which thoughts .. brings a subject to my mind smile which I have recently been meditating on.

As we grow from children to adults .. we tend to compartmentalize life. We label and categories our experiences. This division (separating experiences into neat packages) allows us to deal with them quickly and (we assume) more accurately.

We separate dreams from wakeful daily reality.
We separate work from home life.
We separate Sunday from other days.
We are one way with our friends and we are another way with strangers (we separate friends from strangers).

We take the whole and chop it up into categories so that we can deal with things in set ways according to what category they fall into.

What I am getting at is that we have learned to divide and separate the events of life ... into categories. All the easier to deal with each item if we have a set method for each category.

However .. now cast your memory back to childhood. Way back. Bring up some very early memory and if you examine it well you may find that you had not yet learned to categories yet. The division between dreams and 'reality', intuitions, emotions, feelings, facts, etc.. had not taken place within you yet. Reality (experiential) was a whole. All things came into play and every experience flowed into the next experience. It would even be the wrong words to say that everything was linked or connected (to say linked and connected assumes a division of separate parts).

Now (we are no longer children) we make the division between dreams and reality. We keep reality (that has some value) while we toss out dreams as fantasy and useless. We eventually habitual ignore any dreams as having no real value to our everyday waking reality. The result of this habit is that is that we dream a lot less. Eventually we are only conscious of having had a dream every now and then on rare occasions.

Do you think schooling did that to us (a separate math class and divided from sciences, language, history, politics, each in its own room with its own book and different teacher)?

While it is sometimes useful to experience life in divisions and categories ... do you think we might lose the overall meaning of life that way?

Have we not ... dissected Providence like a frog is dissected in biology class? Do we REALLY get to know what a frog is by cutting it into sections, dividing it on the table and categories its parts? Do we obtain the meaning of a frog - by killing it and reducing it to categories?

Reducing reality into parts. Have we killed it like we killed the frog we dissected?

I believe it is one of the healthy aspects of contemplation that (during it) we reunite experiential reality to its original wholeness. We leave off following our thinking and logic and ... and we allow all the divisions to melt back together into one thing - one experience in a simple glance.

Providence. In yer face and coming at ya. We are surrounded like a fish in water.

(just some thoughts and nothing more)
-ray

Last edited by Ray Kaliss; 12/06/08 11:11 PM.
Re: What is meaning of a white cross? [Re: Ray Kaliss] #306273 12/06/08 11:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,910
Alice Offline
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,910
There are, for some of us, those special dreams which come along rarely, but when they do, and they are from God, you absolutely know it, and you know the difference between it and a regular dream...so I understand, Ray, what you mean about pondering...

Remember, however, that often the meaning will often come at a later time, when you will look back and say: 'OH, that is why I saw this or that'...or it can come after a heartfelt prayer...

I have been told by monastic priests that dreams and visions which are of God, are often given as a means of comfort and support of sorts for the distress of some trial being experienced or to come. Sometimes they are granted to strenghten our faith, or for us to be able to hold on to it...and it is the kind of experience that, even after forty years, one will never forget.

I think what everyone is saying, is ponder: yes, but don't get too worked up over it or become over analytical about it...as some people may be prone to do, though I am sure you don't. smile

The reason will most definitely come to you in God's time...In the meantime, hold on to the memory and the spiritual elation and grace which you felt during those two days, and be joyous for the miracle of heaven coming to earth to visit you!

In Christ,
Alice


Re: What is meaning of a white cross? [Re: Ray Kaliss] #306276 12/07/08 12:07 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 510
R
Ray Kaliss Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 510
This reminds me of Carl Jung who wrote in his book Sychronisity (spelling!)...

something to the effect that science uses the method of compiling data and then tossing out the anomalies in order to define a constant.

Jung wrote that these anomalies ARE part of reality and to remove them essential leaves us with a picture which is not reality.

Just my thoughts tonight.

Peace be with you and with your church.
-ray

Re: What is meaning of a white cross? [Re: theophan] #306277 12/07/08 12:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 510
R
Ray Kaliss Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 510
Originally Posted by theophan
and let it not be something that stops your pilgrimage.

BOB


You got it. I am not home yet smile Awesome sights or frightening sights - roses or thorns - keep my feet on the path and ... keep walking smile the only time ya stop for a bit is (like the good Samaritan) when someone crosses your path who needs a some care and compassionate help. And after that ... keep walking.

smile

-ray


Last edited by Ray Kaliss; 12/07/08 12:48 AM.
Re: What is meaning of a white cross? [Re: Alice] #306775 12/12/08 12:51 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 510
R
Ray Kaliss Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 510
Originally Posted by Alice


I have been told by monastic priests that dreams and visions which are of God, are often given as...

etc...

In Christ,
Alice



All that you say Alice is good.

Thank you.

-ray

Re: What is meaning of a white cross? [Re: Ray Kaliss] #306880 12/12/08 05:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,759
Paul B Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,759

As we grow from children to adults .. we tend to compartmentalize life. We label and categories our experiences. This division (separating experiences into neat packages) allows us to deal with them quickly and (we assume) more accurately.

We separate dreams from wakeful daily reality.
We separate work from home life.
We separate Sunday from other days.
We are one way with our friends and we are another way with strangers (we separate friends from strangers).

We take the whole and chop it up into categories so that we can deal with things in set ways according to what category they fall into.

What I am getting at is that we have learned to divide and separate the events of life ... into categories. All the easier to deal with each item if we have a set method for each category.

However .. now cast your memory back to childhood. Way back. Bring up some very early memory and if you examine it well you may find that you had not yet learned to categories yet. The division between dreams and 'reality', intuitions, emotions, feelings, facts, etc.. had not taken place within you yet. Reality (experiential) was a whole. All things came into play and every experience flowed into the next experience. It would even be the wrong words to say that everything was linked or connected (to say linked and connected assumes a division of separate parts).


_________
Ray,
The Master said, "Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it." Mk 10:15

How would a child accept this vision? It should be a comfort and a sign to accept your crosses, with God's grace and blessing. Not to "cling" to the vision, but to use it as an encouraging exortation.

Fr Deacon Paul

Page 2 of 2 1 2

The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2019 (Forum 1998-2019). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3