www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West specific Orthodox disagreements with the Catholic Catechism

No, I do not see the point at all, not one bit. As I said/implied, start another thread on this if you want. If I see the point in posts there, then I may choose to participate also.


(I don't know what the proposition is that you are referring to.)

A clarification: There are "Easterners" in the Catholic Church also.

So a "baptized-Catholic" who is then baptized in the Orthodox church, was not in fact really baptized (as a Catholic), and therefore, was not a Christian, one who had put on Christ? That's a question.

You'd have to ask my bishop. I would say that those who claim a baptism outside the Church (which is, as I have been taught, the big-O one) would be in the category of "Other sheep do I have which are not of this fold. Them also must I bring and there will be one fold and one shepherd."

I am intrigued.... Catholics have no trouble at all denying the existence of the Sacraments in, say the Anglican and Lutheran Churches. They deny that the Archbishop of Canterbury is anything more than a layman. They deny that anything happens at his eucharistic service. He cannot forgive sins. He cannot confirm. He cannot ordain. So why is it that you allow the baptism of these ecclesial communities when you deny them the other Sacraments? Why is baptism the only Sacrament which exists outside the Church?

[OK, I think that you may now allow their Marriage as sacramental but did this leniency commence only recently with Vatican II?]

Hieromonk Father Ambrose, bless,

I think the only reason is historical - the Church has always accepted the Baptism of Arian/non-orthodox bishops and clergy, as well those performed by, for example, pagan and/or non-Christian slaves/servants of Christans.

Since sacraments are encounters with Christ they do not exist outside the church. The very terminology seems strange to me. The Catholic practice regarding baptism results from Holy Tradition.

As a very crude analogy I'd say baptizing is something like opening a special door for entering the Church (in the broadest sense) and putting on Christ. A person can't open the door for himself (can't baptize oneself) and properly it is done by a minister of the Church according to custom. Because of the importance of entering, however, because of ignorance or inability or other mitigating circumstances, anyone can as necessary open the door for the person seeking/needing to be baptized. It must be the right door and opened the right way, the Church supplying what is possible and lacking, if required.