The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
LionHippo44, Evan Gallagher, Lizzy VH, thomisticgamer, DesertPrayer
5,708 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 113 guests, and 72 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Byzantine Nebraska
Byzantine Nebraska
by orthodoxsinner2, December 11
Church of the Holy Trinity (UGCC) - Brazil
Church of the Holy Trinity (UGCC) - Brazil
by Santiago Tarsicio, March 17
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
by JLF, November 10
Upgraded Russian icon corner
Upgraded Russian icon corner
by The young fogey, October 20
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics34,957
Posts413,415
Members5,708
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,658
Mexican Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,658
The Argentinian government could not avoid the political pressure of the Zionist lobby and finally decided to expell Bishop Williamson:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7900591.stm

Argentina is governed by the leftist government of Cristina Kirchner.

These are very bad news, as it seems that freedom of expression is dying again in countries that suffered under dictatorships like Argentina.

People who do not share the views of the establishment in matters of history and politics are victims of censorship and political persecusion.

The Roman hierarchy in Argentina will probably not oppose the government's decission, as most of its leadership is also left-wing and liberal (Latin American hierarchs were in most cases appointed by John Paul II).

Argentina is the Latin American country were Eastern Christianity is best represented. There is a ROCOR diocese, formerly headed by Bishop Alexander who traslated several works of Russian Orthodox authors into Spanish. In addition to the ROCOR you can find the Constantinople Diocese led by American born Archishop Tarasios.

The Armenian Catholic Church (and its Oriental Orthodox counterpart) have several thousand followers and there is a small Ukrainian Catholic community (although, latinized).

Argentinian Nationalists (who are in many cases Traditional Catholic, as well as Eastern Orthodox) have been the only ones to protest this decission.





Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 458
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 458
My understanding is that he does not have citizenship and was there as an NGO employee, now that he is no longer head of the seminary he has no legal right to be in the county. I agree that it is a political move, but nonetheless from the info I have it is legal.

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678
It is of course legal. It is equally obvious what the real, underlying reasons for the expulsion are.

Behold, guys, the dictatorship of political correctness.

I am confident this is only an example of the logical beginning of the West's slow march to social suicide, unless something changes.

Alexis

Last edited by Logos - Alexis; 02/20/09 02:13 AM.
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,505
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,505
First of all Bishop Williamson's declaration that the Holocost did not happen and that 911 was an American Plot are totally unacceptable whether one is liberal or conservative.
Stephanos I

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,712
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,712
What Logos - Alexis said.

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,028
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,028
Permit me to indulge in some analysis:

I would like to revise the question into: "What is going on in France-Germany-Austria?" All of this started with the controversy over Williamson and, in Austria, simply boiled over into the question of Fr. Wagner's elevation to the episcopacy. There is actually a common denominator to the Williamson and Wagner controversies: the fear of the liberals that the "conservatives" and "traditionalists" are being given more and more space in the Church (never mind that the SSPX hasn't even been regularized).

I'd like to remind everyone that Fr. Wagner's appointment is just the latest of the elevations to the episcopacy of clergy who, a few years ago, would have been considered too conservative or traditionalist. (Prior to Fr. Wagner there was Fr. Jean-Pierre Batut in France). Perhaps this was the proverbial last straw for the liberals...

I think that this is all part of the attempt of Western episcopacies to limit the ground gained by Catholic "conservatives" and "traditionalists" under Pope Benedict's papacy. Pope Benedict moves much more slowly compared to his predecessors, but his actions from 2006 - 2008 have been enough to greatly alarm much of the Catholic hierarchy, and we are seeing the beginnings of renewed rebellion against papal authority. In addition to the noise in France-Germany-Austria, please keep in mind Cardinal Murphy O'Connor's recent snub of Archbishop Burke and Cardinal Rosales' insulting guidelines on the (non) application of Summorum Pontificum. Many are afraid of what this Pope intends to do next, and would like to remind him that he will face much opposition for every unpopular and "ultraconservative" decision he makes... perhaps in the hope that the Holy Father will thus be deterred from implementing his will.

There is much talk nowadays of the following impending decisions of the Holy Father:

1) Regularization of the SSPX
2) Reception of the Traditional Anglicans into the Catholic Church
3) Restriction (if not banning) of communion in the hand
4) Institution of certain reforms into the Ordo Missae

While #4 has elements that will please liberals, Nos. 1-3 are definitely anathema to them. The recent noise from the European bishops will guarantee that the Pope will be more cautious in implementing his intentions.

Keep in mind also that Pope Benedict XVI is turning 82 in April. He has a very tiring year ahead, few popes have lived past 82, the Pope has himself spoken of reigning for but a short time. More ominously, the upcoming Synod on Africa is providing an opportunity for a lot of noise in favor of an up-and-coming papabile, Peter Cardinal Turkson of Ghana, one of the youngest Cardinals, and a reputed "liberal". (Interesting first name, no?)

Last edited by asianpilgrim; 02/20/09 03:51 AM.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678
I have never believed the papal prophecies, but yes, Asianpilgrim, if Peter Cardinal Turkson becomes Pope, consider me a believer.

#4 you mention as having elements which are pleasing to liberals. Which elements? From what I can tell, from Pope Benedict's liturgical reforms to the upcoming mostly-accurate translation of the Ordo Missae into English, there is more or less a traditional bent.

We need to pray earnestly for our Holy Father. I am not alone in believing that his steps toward reorienting the Church towards Tradition have let loose a whole host of attacks by Satan, more of which are to come.

Of course, I believe the Holy Spirit guides the Church and that in the end the liberals, progressivists, whatever one wants to call them, cannot and will not win the war that rages in the Church.

I hope it pleases God to grant Pope Benedict many, many more years on this earth. The eternal salvation of countless millions of souls may very well depend on it.

Alexis

Last edited by Logos - Alexis; 02/20/09 04:50 AM.
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,881
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,881
I for one was not surprised he was living in Argentina given it is a well known bolt hole for Nazis and Fascists. The various governments were nerver ones to shun raping a nun and shoot her dead for nursing, or feeding the poor, or dropping her with priests alive from a great height into the southern Atlantic such was their hatred for Christ's Church. Dictators of right, or left are all the same. A government decides to act decently (possibly for the first time in the nations history) and they are "leftists" and no good.

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,405
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,405
Originally Posted by Mexican

The Roman hierarchy in Argentina will probably not oppose the government's decission, as most of its leadership is also left-wing and liberal (Latin American hierarchs were in most cases appointed by John Paul II).


Mexican,

are you suggesting that Pope John Paul II was a left-wing liberal? If so, your suggestion is simply not credible, given the late Pope's stance against communism in his native Poland as well as so-called "liberation theology" in Latin America.

Or are you perhaps suggesting that the late Pope didn't know what he was doing and that he appointed left-wing liberal bishops by accident?

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,217
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,217

Wonder if Bishop Williamson will now be hounded where ever he attempts to travel to. What's next, extraditing him to the Hague to face One World justice.

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 478
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 478
Quote

First of all Bishop Williamson's declaration that the Holocost did not happen and that 911 was an American Plot are totally unacceptable whether one is liberal or conservative.


What do you mean "unacceptable"? Do you mean "not true"? If so, I agree. If you mean it is unacceptable for someone to even hold such erroneous beliefs, then I am afraid that this is what Logos-Alexis warned about.

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,405
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,405
By posing as a Catholic bishop and making statements that are both offensive and untrue, Williamson has caused grave damage to the Catholic Church. This is what makes his statements so scandalous.

Those who oppose the Catholic Church in general, and Pope Benedict XVI in particular (such as these "Catholic members of Congress"), have been only too happy to exploit Williamson's scandalous statements and use them as a stick with which to beat the Holy Church and the Holy Father.

There is only one word for a man like Williamson: ANAXIOS!

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678
He is more worthy than a large percentage of the European and Latin American episcopate...but that's not saying much.

Alexis

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,405
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,405
For those who read Spanish, here is more on the decision by the Argentine government:

El gobierno echó al obispo antisemita

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,285
AthanasiusTheLesser
Member
Offline
AthanasiusTheLesser
Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,285
Originally Posted by Logos - Alexis
He is more worthy than a large percentage of the European and Latin American episcopate...but that's not saying much.

Alexis


I have to disagree with this--emphatically. In my mind, fidelity to traditionally teaching does not excuse something so intellectually dishonest and dangerous as denying the Holocaust (or in the case of Bishop Williamson, trivializing the Holocaust by denying its extent). Doing so gives the appearance of anti-Semitism. We are called to avoid even the appearance of evil, and in my mind, denying the Holocaust or its scope gives the appearance of evil. I'm always glad to see fidelity to traditional teaching, but that in itself does not mitigate the offense and danger that can be caused when those who hold a pastoral office engage in such ridiculous and reckless speech as has Bishop Williamson.

Ryan

Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  Father Anthony 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2020 (Forum 1998-2020). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5