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Healing Astonishment:
Catholic self-criticism following the Orthodox-Catholic Dialogue in Belgrade


The Ninth Session of the International Orthodox-Catholic Dialogue Commission took place in Belgrade from 18 to 24 September 2006.
Unanimously, participants have stressed the constructive atmosphere of the meetings. However, an "official protest" delivered by the representative of the Moscow Patriarchate, Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev, to Cardinal Kasper, the Commission�s Catholic co-chairman, did not go unnoticed. Catholic news agencies claimed to be "astonished" , showed "limited understanding" , or even announced a "new set-back" in the quest for improved relations between Moscow and the Vatican.
Barbara Hallensleben, professor of Christian doctrine and the theology of ecumenism at the theological faculty of Fribourg University, participated in the Belgrade meeting as a member of the Dialogue Commission. Her assessment of the situation is different.
"By staging his protest, the representative of the Moscow Patriarchate has actually helped the catholic cause of finding a common understanding of primacy", says Hallensleben towards the press agency KIPA. She believes that Catholic members of the Commission have not grasped the extent of the dispute at the time.
Not without being self-critical, she recognises what she calls a "healing astonishment" which may ultimately lead to a more fundamental exploration of potential ways towards full church unity.
What is at stake? The contentious issue was a section in the document deliberated during the meeting, a paragraph on the authority of Ecumenical Councils. It states that, in the second millennium, the East and the West continued to hold "general councils gathering together the bishops of local Churches in communion with the See of Rome or the See of Constantinople" . Bishop Hilarion is right in emphasising the fact that no pan-Orthodox Council has taken place after the Seventh Ecumenical Council in Nicea in the year 787.
He states that for the Orthodox tradition "communion with the See of Constantinople" has never been regarded as a criterion for the legitimacy of a council in the same way as did the communio with Rome in the West. Within the order (taxis) of Patriarchates, Constantinople holds the second place; since the disruption of the communio with the bishop of Rome it has ascended to the position of an "honorary pre-eminence" amongst the remaining patriarchates. However, neither historically nor ecclesiologically, does this validate the notion of a "second primate" that could complement the Roman primate on the same level, albeit in a different shape.
In the year 2000, the "Note" of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith on the term of "sister churches" has already served as a reminder of the fact that wordings like "our two churches" ought to be avoided because "if applied to the Catholic Church and the totality of Orthodox Churches [.], [they] imply a plurality not merely on the level of particular Churches, but also on the level of the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church confessed in the Creed, whose real existence is thus obscured" (no 11).
The protest of the Moscow Patriarchate essentially reaffirms this appeal: the Catholic and the Orthodox sister churches are not two churches incorporating two different primates. Rather, they have unity as sister churches, and as such, they are searching together for an appropriate _expression of that unity in the Body of Christ.
Thus, the relationship with the Patriarchate of Constantinople is by no means an "intra-Orthodox" matter, supposedly not of any concern for Catholics. Rather, Catholic local churches strive for full church communion with the entirety of their Christian sister churches.
For this reason, the methodology chosen at the Belgrade meeting was unfortunate. When the Catholic delegation urged the Orthodox delegations to vote on how to articulate the role of the patriarchate of Constantinople, the delegation from Moscow found itself in a minority position. Despite the fact that it represents some 70% of Orthodox Christianity, its voting power was limited to 2 votes out of 30. During the discussion, Bishop Hilarion emphasised the view that majority verdicts could never decide questions of ecclesiological self-understanding.
Due to time restrictions, decisions concerning subsequent stages of the dialogue did not take place, and the work postponed to the next meeting in October 2007. According to Professor Hallensleben, this is a welcome opportunity to deepen the Catholic self-understanding regarding the dialogue with the Orthodox sister churches.
The press agency KIPA quotes Professor Hallensleben:
"Ecumenical dialogue is invariably also a �dialogue of conversion�. Previously, we have established our differences in our commission, but we have not yet asked ourselves either whether they need to remain, or whether their continued existence actually rules out full ecclesial communio. I sincerely hope that we will eventually reach the point where we can devise specific proposals for the transformation of the lives of our churches".
Cardinal Walter Kasper assured to take in consideration the essential remarks made by the Russian Orthodox Church.
Barbara Hallensleben wishes to express her personal appreciation for the collaboration with Bishop Hilarion:
"In Belgrade, he has helped us to better understand the truth of the conditions in which our dialogue takes place. Although this might imply a rise in tensions in the short term, we should remember the Word of the Gospel: The truth will set you free"!
According to professor Hallensleben, it is important that the Orthodox churches, like Catholic local churches, view themselves as the true Church of Jesus Christ.
She declares:
"This is not an impediment, but rather a precondition for our full communio. The sixteenth century model of church division should not be transposed to the Orthodox churches, for they have emerged not from separation, but from their own ecclesial traditions which can be traced back to their common apostolic institution" .

Source
Kipa-Apic
www.europaica@ orthodoxeurope. org


Alexandr

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Quote
When the Catholic delegation urged the Orthodox delegations to vote on how to articulate the role of the patriarchate of Constantinople, the delegation from Moscow found itself in a minority position. Despite the fact that it represents some 70% of Orthodox Christianity, its voting power was limited to 2 votes out of 30. During the discussion, Bishop Hilarion emphasised the view that majority verdicts could never decide questions of ecclesiological self-understanding.
Except that it appears this isn't what occured. It was the Eastern Orthodox who pushed for the vote, not the Catholics. Apparently the Catholic side even at first encouraged a simple dropping of the offending text, but the non-Russian Eastern Orthodox, or at least Bishop John of Pergamon, would not have it and pushed for a vote. The Russians ended up on the losing end of that Orthodox-initiated vote on the matter.

There is certainly some re-evaluation going on for Catholics interested in the matter of East-West unity right now as a result of this event, but I don't think it's along the lines of what this article is suggesting.

Peace and God bless!

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Just a few days ago, we were told that Moscow represented 80% of world Orthodoxy. Today it is 70%. Must have been a hard week for someone.

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Still others have suggested the ROC-MP holds sway over 7/8 of world Orthodoxy.

Certainly, Russia has at least 50% of the world's Orthodox faithful.

Amado

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Oh, dear - now it's down to 50%.

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And the kicker is they're not even good at practicing their faith! wink

I'm kidding (Neil, really, I am...), but I have always found it odd that a country with one of the highest abortion rates in the world claims half/three-fourths/four-fifths of a religion that is diametrically opposed to that!

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Oh, and it's a safe bet to they that, recently, whenever the Church takes part in a an ecumenical dialogue of any sort, all past wrongs are always our faults.

Guess it's our overactive Catholic guilt-consciences! That, or we think apologizing for something that people totally unrelated to us did 75, 500, 1000 years ago will magically make all divisions disappear and everyone will become Catholic. :p

Logos Teen

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International Family Planning Perspectives
Volume 25, Number 1, March 1999


Methods: Numbers of legal induced abortions were estimated for 54 countries from official statistics or other national data. Abortion rates per 1,000 women aged 15-44 were calculated for the years 1975 through 1996.

Results: The most striking recent trend is a sharp decline in abortion incidence in Eastern and Central Europe and the successor states to the Soviet Union. For example, rates fell by 28-47% in the four former Soviet states with reasonably complete data (Belarus, Estonia, Kazakhstan and Latvia), and by 18-65% in six states with less-complete reporting. Similar patterns were seen in such nations as Bulgaria, Hungary and the Czech and Slovak Republics.

Notice what happens when Orthodoxy replaced communism. Can the Catholic west claim the same results? Seems to me that Catholic Ireland just legalized abortion, and Catholic western Europe abortion rates are rising.

Alexandr

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Alexander, there really isn't a Catholic Western Europe anymore.

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Alexandr,

As Mr. Clean stated, "Catholic western Europe" doesn'e exist. Secondly, I was talking about Russia, not its former satellites. Russia has a ridiculous affinity for abortion!

Logos Teen

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Teen,
as stated, the rates have dropped between 18 and 65% in the former Soviet Union, and this info is 7 years old already. Trust me, the Church is making serious inroads into the abortion problem. You attack Russia because of it's high abortion rate, but yet dismiss similar findings in Catholic countries. Not to be snide, but I find it ironic that Russian abortions are dropping, but Catholic abortions are rising. So you tell me who is "good at practicing their faith".

Alexandr

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Both Catholics and Orthodox have heretics and apostates masquerading as legitimate members.

Fighting back and forth about who has departed from the faith because some members have done bad things proves nothing. The official doctrine and practice of each other's heirarchy is what proves who is following the right path.

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I would agree with Dr. Eric, and I would also agee with you, Alexandr, in saying that Catholics aren't so good in that department either, especially in "Catholic" countries in Europe.

I believe that is a result of the misinterpretation/misimplementation of Vatican II for the past 40 years and is related to the general overall crisis in Catholicism.

Though I still would be interested in seeing some statistics you could provide that abortion rates in Russia are dropping, and that this is a result of Russian Orthodoxy instead of the government's desperate attempts at paying thousands of dollars to Russian women not to have abortions, so that the Russian people will survive.

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Getting back to the original post, I have a genuine question for the Orthodox or those familiar with the Orthodox model of governance.

I've always understood the Orthodox model to be conciliar and not democratic. Why would the Orthodox have wanted a democratic vote instead of time to talk among themselves and agree? Are the Orthodox shying away from their own historical model? Have I misunderstood?

With my understanding, the next step would be for the Orthodox to come together over the next year and agree on a wording they all can stand behind and then come to next year's talks prepared and united. This doesn't seem to be a possibility. Why not?

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It is my understanding that one of the key topics for discussion at this particular meeting was the
Eastern Catholic Churches.
Was this topic discussed?
Where can I find that discussion?
Or was it tabled until October 2007?
Thank you.

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