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Re: Study Text of the Ruthenian Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom [Re: Dostojno Jest] #320654
05/03/09 09:49 AM
05/03/09 09:49 AM
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Thank you so much... It will take me a while to read it all!!! But is is wonderful!! thanks!

Re: Study Text of the Ruthenian Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom [Re: Dostojno Jest] #320656
05/03/09 09:52 AM
05/03/09 09:52 AM
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it tells me i cant download it :(:(

Re: Study Text of the Ruthenian Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom [Re: Lathe] #320785
05/04/09 09:11 AM
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John
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May 4, 2009: The file in the original post has been updated with a newer version. The changes from the initial draft are mostly typo corrections, a few word changes, plus the addition of a few questions. It is still very much a work in progress and changes to the 1964 should still be considered as nothing more then possibilities (though most seem to bearing out in the ongoing reviews by experts in Slavonic).

A few have stated they cannot download it. Try right-clicking and saving, then opening from your computer's hard drive. As noted above you will need the Adobe Reader.

Re: Study Text of the Ruthenian Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom [Re: Administrator] #327007
07/09/09 06:32 PM
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July 9, 2009: I'm posting an update since I regularly receive questions about the status of this project. It is progressing, but it is summer and I really had no idea as to how long volunteers would take to review the text. The project marches forth but will probably take another month or two. The text of Basil is prepared and ready for review but I have decided to hold off for a bit. Since I've separated out the unique Basil text from the text that is common to both Basil and Chrysostom I may simply append it to the above pdf the next time I update it. Also, a similar multi-column effort comparing the "Pew Book" texts is in preparation.

Thanks to everyone for the tremendous and positive feedback on the project. Please pray for this effort and for all those involved. And keep praying for the Ruthenian bishops, that they reject the Revised Divine Liturgy and embrace the full Byzantine Liturgy (correctly and completely translated).

Re: Study Text of the Ruthenian Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom [Re: Administrator] #346366
04/06/10 05:25 PM
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Christos Voskrese!

I enjoyed your work, John. It was helpful to have this, so that the layman can see what changes were made to our Liturgical Services. I noticed the horizontal inclusive language, the shortened antiphons--perhaps like the Greeks with a repetition of the "Through the prayer of the Theotokos, O Savior Save us" taken instead of the full antiphons, use of Theotokos instead of Mother of God, concelebration notes, but overall the RDL is not offensive to me. I did like the use of Theotokos. But, I see your point that it would be best to have a good translation of the editio typica in Revised Liturgical English--perhaps something like the OCA has. I thought the RDL was the fruit of Metropolitan Judson's desire to restore the Rusyn Church in America to its Orthodox roots. I am confused about this, but will leave it to the 'big boys' to fight over it. I am sure your argument will prevail with Pope Benedict in office. I will sign your petition, if you have one.

In Christ God,


Robert

Re: Study Text of the Ruthenian Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom [Re: Robert Horvath] #346418
04/07/10 04:23 PM
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Robert,

Thank you for the comments!

Much work has been done on the text (the one posted is now a year old!). I am hoping to release a public draft of fully updated Chrysostom and Basil Liturgicons soon. I just received back another review of Chrysostom from one priest who has 2 questions that I need to investigate to ensure literal faithfulness to the Slavonic normative text. After a public draft with request for review and comment (most likely several months) the books will be published as a study text and made available to anyone who wants it, especially students of Liturgy and libraries. The comments from those who have reviewed it are incredibly positive, so maybe the work will plant seeds in the Church.

When the Liturgicons are ready I will update the "four column" linked above.

John

Re: Study Text of the Ruthenian Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom [Re: Administrator] #346445
04/08/10 01:45 PM
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Christ is Risen!

Dear John,

No, thank you for all of the hard work you have done for the Church! I am sure you will be rewarded in the future for this. Hopefully, in the future all Churches of the Constantinopolitan Tradition can get together and have a Common Translation with reverent American English usage. God is doing amazing things now; it could be a possibility.

I hope you had a blessed Pascha!

In Christ God,


Robert

Re: Study Text of the Ruthenian Divine Liturgy of St. John Chryso [Re: Robert Horvath] #346473
04/09/10 07:27 AM
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Quote
I am sure you will be rewarded in the future for this.


If not in this world by this Church, then in the next one by the One who founded all Churches.

Re: Study Text of the Ruthenian Divine Liturgy of St. John Chryso [Re: StuartK] #346780
04/15/10 08:04 PM
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I actually have pdf versions of these ready to post. But since the Revised Grail Psalter has now received Vatican approval and will be available in a few weeks I'm going to hold off. I'd like to review the Revised Grail Psalter to see if it is suitable for use (corrected to the LXX). If it is there are a number of direct psalm quotes that could be updated and it is best to do that (or at least make a decision not to do that!) before posting the Liturgicons for public draft review.

I also still need to update the 'four column' with the latest draft texts. Meanwhile, the update to the texts given in the Levkulic Pew Book is moving along nicely and there is a start on the texts of Vespers and Matins.

Re: Study Text of the Ruthenian Divine Liturgy of St. John Chryso [Re: Administrator] #346790
04/15/10 08:32 PM
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First thing, try chanting the most common ones aloud, to see if it works.

Re: Study Text of the Ruthenian Divine Liturgy of St. John Chryso [Re: StuartK] #346792
04/15/10 09:28 PM
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Yes, of course. And I also have a multi-column of Psalm 50 and etc. for review purposes, as well as one for the psalm verses used in the Liturgy already underway (with a column kept free for the Revised Grail). [But at this point I would not change the verses used in the Sunday/Daily antiphons.]

It should be interesting!

Re: Study Text of the Ruthenian Divine Liturgy of St. John Chryso [Re: Administrator] #351028
08/09/10 04:25 AM
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A quick google search yielded nothing. For my interest, does anyone have a pdf of the proposed RDL text in a ukrainian language version?

Re: Study Text of the Ruthenian Divine Liturgy of St. John Chryso [Re: Otsheylnik] #352343
09/04/10 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Otsheylnik
A quick google search yielded nothing. For my interest, does anyone have a pdf of the proposed RDL text in a ukrainian language version?

The Ukrainian Greek Catholics are not revising the Divine Liturgy or the other Divine Services. At their 2006 Synod they reaffirmed the liturgical books of the Ruthenian recension.

Re: Study Text of the Ruthenian Divine Liturgy of St. John Chryso [Re: Administrator] #352345
09/04/10 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Administrator
I actually have pdf versions of these ready to post. But since the Revised Grail Psalter has now received Vatican approval and will be available in a few weeks I'm going to hold off. I'd like to review the Revised Grail Psalter to see if it is suitable for use (corrected to the LXX). If it is there are a number of direct psalm quotes that could be updated and it is best to do that (or at least make a decision not to do that!) before posting the Liturgicons for public draft review.

I also still need to update the 'four column' with the latest draft texts. Meanwhile, the update to the texts given in the Levkulic Pew Book is moving along nicely and there is a start on the texts of Vespers and Matins.

I've been receiving requests for copies of the updated liturgicons. I am still waiting for the final texts of the Revised Grail Psalter so that they can be reviewed to see if they are suitable for use in the liturgicon (and other Divine Services).

As the project stands, the updates to the Divine Liturgies Chrysostom and Basil are done. Chrysostom is in regular use by a few priests outside the Ruthenian Church. Basil was used throughout the Great Fast this past year. Several of the reviewer priests have provided good, scholarly feedback and the issues they have raised have been addressed. It is very interesting (and good) to hear from several priests that both liturgicons "pray naturally and easily". If I had known that the Revised Grail Psalter was to be delayed this long I would have moved to the public draft review & comment stage of the project back in January (I did not want to publish it and then have to immediately revise it should it be decided to use the Revised Grail Psalter). But as the publishers of the Revised Grail Psalter seem to be saying it is only "weeks" until the final RGP is available I might as well wait and hope that they are accurate in their time estimate.

Please note that the four column is very much out of date. Consider it to be an early first draft. A good deal of work has been done on it by several people, including Forum folks like Deacon Tony (ajk), Stuart's wife, and Stuart (many thanks to all of them!).

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