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Re: Wanting to discuss with an Ukrainian Greek-Catholic priest [Re: Fr Serge Keleher] #318848 04/14/09 06:44 AM
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Can I find that study online?

Re: Wanting to discuss with an Ukrainian Greek-Catholic priest [Re: LiturgicalStuff] #318849 04/14/09 07:03 AM
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For sure Uniatism is a complex phenomenon BUT Uniatism's purpose wasn't latinisation. And this latinisation cannot attract Orthodox in the perspective of a future communion with the Roman See.

Re: Wanting to discuss with an Ukrainian Greek-Catholic priest [Re: LiturgicalStuff] #318854 04/14/09 10:43 AM
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Fr Serge Keleher Offline
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Korolevsky's study of Uniatism originally appeared in French, published by Irenikon in about 1927. I translated it into English and it appears as an Appendix to my English translation of Korolevsky's biography of Metropolitan Andrew - which may be out of print at the moment.

Eastern Christian Publications did my translation of Uniatism as a separate offprint several years ago; I think it's currently in print but you might check the ECP web site catalogue.

I've not been informed of anyone putting Uniatism on line, but plagiarism is rife these days so I won't say it's impossible.

Fr. Serge

Re: Wanting to discuss with an Ukrainian Greek-Catholic priest [Re: The young fogey] #318863 04/14/09 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by The young fogey
...most churchgoers are Russian Orthodox - except in Galicia and Ruthenia (the part right on the border with Slovakia), which are majority Greek Catholic.


Unless things have changed recently, the Orthodox (MP) are the majority in Ruthenia/Podkarpatska Rus/Zakarpattya Oblast.

Dave

Re: Wanting to discuss with an Ukrainian Greek-Catholic priest [Re: Fr Serge Keleher] #318871 04/14/09 02:55 PM
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It looks like Fr Serge's translation of Fr Cyril Korolevsky's biography of Metropolitan Andrew is available still from Eastern Christian Publications: https://ssl.webvalence.com/ecommerce/kiosk.lasso?merchant=ecpubs&kiosk=books&class=2

You just have to scroll down a little, it is item #E03.

This is a truly fascinating biography. I read it some years ago and I would highly recommend it to anyone interested in the period and subject matter.

Last edited by Latin Catholic; 04/14/09 02:58 PM.
Re: Wanting to discuss with an Ukrainian Greek-Catholic priest [Re: The young fogey] #318876 04/14/09 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by The young fogey
I'm not a priest of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic or other church but:


Their original liturgical language is not Ukrainian: that's a practice dating to about the 1970s. It's Slavonic like the Russian Orthodox but in their accent and with their own kind of chant.

The Ukraine like Russia proper is largely secular today but most churchgoers are Russian Orthodox - except in Galicia and Ruthenia (the part right on the border with Slovakia), which are majority Greek Catholic. (The part of Ruthenia now in the Ukraine was taken by the USSR around the same time as Galicia but was never Polish. It was Austrian then Czechoslovak. Its Greek Catholics are not in the UGCC.)


Just 2 corrections: The Ukrainian Orthodox Church under Lipkivsky used vernacular Ukrainian. I have read about translations into Ukrianian in the 1920's.

Re: Wanting to discuss with an Ukrainian Greek-Catholic priest [Re: LiturgicalStuff] #318930 04/15/09 12:54 AM
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While I am not a priest of the UGCC, I am a deacon. I admit I am also having a bit of difficulty in following the general trend of discussion.

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What's the situation nowadays? Do they follow the proper Byzantine rite or they still have Roman rite influentions? Are these influences aproved by any local Synod and introduced in the Ieratikon/Slujebnik ?

The UGCC Synod has decreed the Ordo Celebrationis obligatory; in addition the more recent Instruction from Rome is also included in this category. This is echoed in the more particular law; for example the particular law for the UGCC in the USA specifically exhorts the parochial restoration of the Divine Praises, especially Vespers and Matins.

Actually a number of parishes are in the process of restoring more of the traditional liturgical cycle. An excellent example can be found at http://www.saintelias.com/ca/index.php

While there is still much to be done, the UGCC has come a long way since Zamosc, and much of that improvement happening in the last 40 years.

Re: Wanting to discuss with an Ukrainian Greek-Catholic priest [Re: The young fogey] #318931 04/15/09 01:04 AM
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The Ukraine

Just as a note, the general accepted convention is not to refer to Ukraine as "The Ukraine" similarly as one does not refer to America as "The America" or Canada as "The Canada". The exception would be if using the title as an historical descriptive, such as "The Ukraine of St. Peter Mohyla", etc.

Re: Wanting to discuss with an Ukrainian Greek-Catholic priest [Re: Diak] #318962 04/15/09 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Diak
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The Ukraine

Just as a note, the general accepted convention is not to refer to Ukraine as "The Ukraine" similarly as one does not refer to America as "The America" or Canada as "The Canada". The exception would be if using the title as an historical descriptive, such as "The Ukraine of St. Peter Mohyla", etc.


Let me echo Deacon Randy on this point and - because it has the potential to become a topic of MUCH contention (making the appropriate adjectival description of a certain chicken pale by comparison) - I caution that any battleground opened on the matter will be swiftly interdicted!

Those desirous of learning more about the appropriate and inappropriate usage of "The" before a geographic nominative (and the linguistic rules associated with such) are advised to search out a learned thread on the topic from several years ago. As best I recollect, principal contributors to it included myself, my brothers, Amado and Deacon Randy, and our beloved friend and former poster, the man wearing a brown paper bag (Incognitus).

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
Re: Wanting to discuss with an Ukrainian Greek-Catholic priest [Re: Latin Catholic] #318965 04/15/09 06:37 AM
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If I do say so myself, that biography is essential reading for the understanding of the Greek-Catholic Church in the twentieth century. Fr. Cyril Korolevsky himself has considerable importance in the development of Greek-Catholic thought and practice.

Don't miss it!

Fr. Serge

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