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Re: Speech of Metropolitan Jonah [Re: Logos - Alexis] #318429 04/09/09 04:42 PM
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Our Lady's slave Offline
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I've kept off posting on this thread - bearing in mind I'm not in the USA nor am I Orthodox.

I can't help feeling that it would probably better if we left this topic alone now till after Pascha - on BOTH Calandars

Re: Speech of Metropolitan Jonah [Re: Logos - Alexis] #318473 04/09/09 08:42 PM
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Byzantine TX Offline
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More to be found on his opinions here:

http://www.oca.org/news/1815


Re: Speech of Metropolitan Jonah [Re: Fr Serge Keleher] #318607 04/11/09 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Serge Keleher
Please don't denounce me for "phyletism", but I take the view that Eastern Orthodoxy's remarkable ability to become inculturated in a wide variety of cultures, to the point that some cultures become "traditionally Orthodox", has serious value - the usual fear of "tribalism" strikes me as downright ludicrous.

Might it perhaps be of help if the advocates of "American Orthodoxy" would tell us what they have in mind? Hot dogs? Baseball games? MacDonald's? Dude ranches? The Steelers? Clambakes? Secular schools?

The list could easily become a lot worse.

Fr. Serge

Father, have you ever considered stand up comedy? You are GOOD!! (strangely, these things you mentioned don't sound that far off after hearing the Metropolitan's talk...)

Re: Speech of Metropolitan Jonah [Re: Ruthenian] #318622 04/11/09 10:24 PM
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Fr Serge Keleher Offline
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It has been suggested - and not always in your friendly fashion!

Hamburgers are best home-made, using the best quality of ground steak available.

Fr. Serge

Re: Speech of Metropolitan Jonah [Re: Ruthenian] #318628 04/11/09 11:25 PM
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Quote
Father, have you ever considered stand up comedy? You are GOOD!! (strangely, these things you mentioned don't sound that far off after hearing the Metropolitan's talk...)


Yes, Father Serge is quite witty, indeed!!

Re: Speech of Metropolitan Jonah [Re: Alice] #318650 04/12/09 04:14 AM
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There were a few unpleasant moments in the talk, but overall I agree with His Beatitude.


Re: Speech of Metropolitan Jonah [Re: Alice] #318655 04/12/09 08:39 AM
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Dear Alice, dear friends,

It's nice to be appreciated - a happy and blessed Palm Sunday to everyone!

Fr. Serge

Re: Speech of Metropolitan Jonah [Re: Fr Serge Keleher] #319013 04/15/09 07:27 PM
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http://www.archons.org/news/detail.asp?id=306

Statement of the Order of Saint Andrew, Archons of the Ecumenical Patriarchate in America

New York, NY
4/15/2009

The Order of Saint Andrew, Archons of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, laymen who are deeply devoted to the Great Church of Christ and dedicated to the protection, defense and the mission of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, take this occasion to raise serious concerns and questions over the recent public remarks made by the Primate of the OCA during a Pan-Orthodox Vespers (April 5th) in Dallas, Texas. We do so sorrowfully, not only because the Church is now in the midst of Holy Week, but because the reason for our doing results from language that is unworthy of any ecclesiastical setting. Nevertheless, to be an Archon is to have a special concern and interest to protect and promote the Ecumenical Patriarchate, its mission, and the person of His All Holiness Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew. Therefore, we can not and must not refrain from speaking the truth in love, even though the moment is not the best.
For those who have seen the video that has been widely circulated on the Internet, or have read the transcript that is still on an OCA website, it is immediately apparent that inappropriate language, to say the least, is used against the Ecumenical Patriarchate. Consider this phrase:

There's one solution that's being proposed in which we all submit to Constantinople. We all submit to a foreign patriarchate where all decisions will be made there. Where we will have no say in the decisions that are made, we will have no say in our own destiny and we surrender the freedom that we have embraced as American Orthodox Christians to a patriarch that is still under Islamic domination.
Who has proposed any kind of subjugation to Constantinople? No one! The fact is that all of the Autocephalous Primates agreed in Constantinople on October 12, 2008 that there should be a swift healing of every canonical anomaly that has arisen from historical circumstances and pastoral requirements, such as in the so-called Orthodox Diaspora, with a view to overcoming every possible influence that is foreign to Orthodox ecclesiology (Article 13, ii). This statement was signed by all the recognized Autocephalous Primates or their Official Representatives. Metropolitan Jonah's statements demonstrate not only a lack of knowledge and of discretion; they demonstrate something which is plainly foreign to Orthodox ecclesiology.

To maintain that we, Americans, cannot ... be controlled by people who have never heard a word of English much less would allow a word of English to be spoken in the liturgy. We can't allow our church to be controlled by people who have no appreciation of our culture and have to bow to the Turkish Islamic authorities, is an erroneous, irresponsible statement in any public setting, much less a liturgical service. The fact is that Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew speaks six languages, and had a wonderful conversation with the President of the United States in English two days after this inflammatory remark! Furthermore, when the Heads of the Autocephalous Churches celebrated the Holy Liturgy together last October 12th in the Patriarchal Cathedral of St. George, there was an abundance of tongues used, recalling the Day of Pentecost.
Finally, we, Archons of the Great Church of Christ, must register our concern and pain over the general tone of the Metropolitan's remarks as insulting. When a statement is made, speaking personally about the Ecumenical Patriarch: if we wanted the Pope we'd be under the real one, it is not possible for the Order of Archons to be silent. This kind of disrespect is beneath any Christian. And we must also ask how a phrase like, Communists who now call themselves Democrats, does not cast aspersions on the very Nation whose martyred Church, the Patriarchate of Moscow, created the OCA in the first place?

As we are in the midst of Holy Days, when we all apply ourselves more vigorously to prayer and fasting, as we strive to follow Christ on His Way to the Cross and His Glorious Resurrection, we hope that Metropolitan Jonah will publicly retract his ill-considered remarks. While we rejoice that all things are forgiven in the Resurrection, as Orthodox Christians and as Archons of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, we will continue to be vigilant and express our grave concerns whenever such injustices as these are committed. May God grant to us all the strength and will to work for peaceable, reasonable relationships within His Holy Church, so that the Message of the Holy Gospel may shine forth.

Re: Speech of Metropolitan Jonah [Re: Byzantine TX] #319018 04/15/09 08:57 PM
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"This kind of disrespect is beneath any Christian."

How about referring to the OCA as "the so called OCA"?

Is that kind of disrespect beneath any Christian?


Re: Speech of Metropolitan Jonah [Re: Father Borislav] #319062 04/16/09 06:06 AM
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One way of showing disrespect for the OCA is to be sure always to refer to them, not as the OCA, but as the Orthodox Church in America, while about every third time explaining that despite this title they do not even include a simple majority of Orthodox Christians in the Western Hemisphere, in North America, or in the USA.

Since all of this is the simple truth, no one can criticize such a course of action - but many people will get the point quite readily.

Fr. Serge

Re: Speech of Metropolitan Jonah [Re: Father Borislav] #319133 04/16/09 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Subdeacon Borislav
"This kind of disrespect is beneath any Christian."

How about referring to the OCA as "the so called OCA"?

Is that kind of disrespect beneath any Christian?



I would be the first to say (and I think I did) that Archimandrite Elpidophoros' comments were needlessly offensive; though I believe in response to an earlier statement by Metropolitan Jonah questioning the canonical status of other churches in North America. I excuse neither him (Archimandrite Elpidophoros), nor those that exaggerate and misrepresent the truth from the pulpit.

This is the best writing I have read so far on the issue.

http://janotec.typepad.com/terrace/2009/04/scarecrows-on-the-brink-of-holy-week.html

Have a blessed Pascha!

Last edited by AMM; 04/16/09 09:59 PM.
Re: Speech of Metropolitan Jonah [Re: AMM] #319235 04/17/09 08:57 PM
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Yes, and the good metropolitan just issued an apology for his comments he made regarding the Ecumenical Patriarch and Patriarchate.

Official OCA news release

Re: Speech of Metropolitan Jonah [Re: Secret Squirrel] #319238 04/17/09 09:26 PM
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Many years to all Orthodox Hierarchs!

Have a blessed Pascha!


Re: Speech of Metropolitan Jonah [Re: Father Borislav] #319267 04/18/09 08:23 AM
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Fr Serge Keleher Offline
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I am certainly not a Hierarch, and you might not consider me Orthodox, but a Blessed and Joyful Pascha and Many Years to you too!

Fr. Serge

Re: Speech of Metropolitan Jonah [Re: Fr Serge Keleher] #319299 04/18/09 07:29 PM
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Well, he has said he is sorry:
Quote
Metropolitan Jonah issues statement on recent sermon

Posted 04/17

SYOSSET, NY [OCA Communications] -- On Great, Holy and Good Friday, April 17,
2009, His Beatitude, Metropolitan Jonah, Primate of the Orthodox Church in America, issued the following statement in response to recent commentary on his April 5, 2009 sermon, delivered at Saint Seraphim Cathedral, Dallas, TX.

"I greet you in a spirit of repentance and forgiveness as we celebrate the Passion of our Lord Jesus Christ. Certain comments that were made in the course of my sermon have provoked a reaction from my Orthodox brothers that I did not
intend or foresee. I regret making those comments. In particular, I realize that some characterizations regarding the Ecumenical Patriarch and the Patriarchate of Constantinople were insensitive.


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