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Holy Fire going to the North Pole #319280 04/18/09 02:41 PM
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Pani Rose Offline OP
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I thought Porter and our Alaskan posters would appreciate this...

This Orthodox Easter, the Holy Fire from Jerusalem is, for the first time in history, going to be delivered to the North Pole.

The Holy Fire miraculously appears every year in the Church of the Resurrection in Jerusalem on the day of Orthodox Easter. At the tomb chamber of Jesus, fire spontaneously descends on 33 white candles tied together by the Patriarch while he is alone in the sepulchre. After that, the fire is brought to Orthodox countries, including Russia, Ukraine and Greece. This year, the holy fire will appear on April 26.

Head of Russian Orthodox Church Patriarch Kirill will receive the Holy Fire at the overnight Easter Service in the Moscow Christ the Savior Cathedral, Itar-Tass reports. Then the fire will be sealed in a container and sent via Spitsbergen to the Barneo polar station.

Barneo is a Russian Arctic station located 100 kilometers from the North Pole. It’s the closest station to the uppermost spot of the Earth.

Plans to deliver the Holy Light to the northern pole were made in 2006, but bad weather rendered the action impossible.

http://worldmysteries9.blogspot.com/2009/04/russian-orthodox-believers-to-take-holy.html

Re: Holy Fire going to the North Pole [Re: Pani Rose] #319297 04/18/09 07:10 PM
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Halia12 Offline
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Just to remind everyone here the real North Pole is in Canada.

And the largest Orthodox Church in Canada is the Ukrainian orthodox Church, followed by the Greek Orthodox Church.

p.s. My mother and all my aunts are all pani but I am still a pana.

Re: Holy Fire going to the North Pole [Re: Halia12] #319308 04/18/09 08:18 PM
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Our Lady's slave Offline
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Originally Posted by Halia12
Just to remind everyone here the real North Pole is in Canada.


what's this - sour grapes because the Holy Fire is not going to Canada ?

Quote
And the largest Orthodox Church in Canada is the Ukrainian orthodox Church, followed by the Greek Orthodox Church.


Don't honestly think that they were actually talking about Canada - the article did say
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After that, the fire is brought to Orthodox countries, including Russia, Ukraine and Greece.


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p.s. My mother and all my aunts are all pani but I am still a pana.


And your point is ?

Re: Holy Fire going to the North Pole [Re: Our Lady's slave] #319315 04/18/09 10:21 PM
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Pavel Ivanovich Offline
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The 'magnetic north' is in northern Canada and 'true north' is the North Pole.

Re: Holy Fire going to the North Pole [Re: Pavel Ivanovich] #319319 04/18/09 10:54 PM
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Pani Rose Offline OP
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Humm, sorry I forgot the folks in Canada that post on here. I was in a hurry, but I was thinking what a wonderful blessing to have it that close.

Re: Holy Fire going to the North Pole [Re: Pani Rose] #319329 04/19/09 02:05 AM
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Re: Holy Fire going to the North Pole [Re: Halia12] #319362 04/19/09 10:40 AM
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Irish Melkite Offline
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Originally Posted by Halia12
Just to remind everyone here the real North Pole is in Canada.

And the largest Orthodox Church in Canada is the Ukrainian orthodox Church, followed by the Greek Orthodox Church.

p.s. My mother and all my aunts are all pani but I am still a pana.


Halia,

I'm more than a bit troubled by your post. I've searched for a proper term by which to describe it, but can't find one. Rose posted a news story that touches on a topic that is almost invariably of interest to Eastern Christians - Orthodox and Catholic.

If the story didn't interest you, that's fine. You were free to ignore it, yawn, and pass it by. But, you couldn't or wouldn't do that. Instead, you chose to try and diminish it by offsetting the content with facts - of absolutely no relevance. Your point in doing so is lost on me, as it is on many others here.

Your style, generally, displays a remarkable lack of charity toward your fellow Eastern Christians, both Orthodox and Catholic. It seems that nothing which anyone posts satisfies your personal standards (which you not infrequently seek to elevate as representative of your Church). The effect, if you do not realize it, is to seem small-minded and petty. You need to start hitting the "Preview Post" button and read, carefully, for tone and tenor, thinking how others will see and interpret your words, before posting!

I have the greatest respect for my Ukrainian Orthodox brothers and sisters, as I do for all of our Churches, Orthodox and Catholic. And, my spirit is enriched by seeing the pride and love that each of my brothers and sisters have for their respective Churches and faiths and for their ethnic and cultural heritage - but not when those are expressed by denigrating others - which you do, regularly and seemingly without distinction. I'm sorry, but your attitude is representative neither of Orthodoxy as a whole nor of Ukrainians as a people.

As you are aware from previous discussions, this is not the first time that your posting style has raised concerns among the Administrator and Moderator staff. As has been said before and will be said again, this Forum embodies a community, albeit an imperfect one, probably as close to a 'family' as one can achieve in an internet setting where few of us will ever meet one another in person. It is our expectation that disagreements will arise, debate will be had, but that all will conduct themselves appropriately. Your post to this thread isn't even in the nature of debate or disagreement - it is one-upsmanship - and fails, miserably, the tests of respect, civility, and charity. That this occurs in this Holy Season makes it all the less acceptable.

You have until Bright Tuesday to publicly apologize to Pani Rose or you can expect that the Administrators will place restrictions, temporary or permanent, on your posting privileges.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
Re: Holy Fire going to the North Pole [Re: Irish Melkite] #319363 04/19/09 11:25 AM
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Fr Serge Keleher Offline
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CHRIST IS RISEN! Perhaps I may offer a little help:

I served twenty happy years in Canada, I serve the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic community here in Dublin, and I did not find Halia's post offensive - in fact I thought it was pleasantly light-hearted.

Like many words, "Pani" means different things in different languages and cultures. In modern standard Ukrainian, it is a word of address to any married lady. In Carpatho-Russian usage, it is an honorific for the wife of a priest or deacon. Nothing about either usage is insulting or meant to be insulting.

[But it is mildly interesting to note that in Serbian one calls the priest's wife "Popadia" to her face, while in the Carpathians one calls the priest's wife by the same term but behind her back!]

So may I suggest that there is no reason to assume that Halia was trying to be insulting, and she deserves the benefit of the doubt?

In the Risen Lord,

Fr. Serge

Re: Holy Fire going to the North Pole [Re: Pani Rose] #319379 04/19/09 04:06 PM
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ajk Offline
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Originally Posted by Pani Rose
...The Holy Fire miraculously appears every year in the Church of the Resurrection in Jerusalem on the day of Orthodox Easter...This year, the holy fire will appear on April 26.


The 26th?

Re: Holy Fire going to the North Pole [Re: ajk] #319385 04/19/09 06:09 PM
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Two Lungs Offline
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There have been recent layoffs in the Fulfillment Center.

Shipments have been delayed. grin laugh

We regret the inconvenience. smirk

Originally Posted by ajk
Originally Posted by Pani Rose
...The Holy Fire miraculously appears every year in the Church of the Resurrection in Jerusalem on the day of Orthodox Easter...This year, the holy fire will appear on April 26.


The 26th?




Re: Holy Fire going to the North Pole [Re: Two Lungs] #319414 04/20/09 01:30 AM
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Alice Offline
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I also am in agreement with Neil in that I did not see the relevance of the statement in question.

I would suggest to Halia, since much question has arisen to many here on what is percieved as to the harsh tones of many of her posts, that she try to use emoticons if her statement is meant to be a light one.

I would also suggest to Halia that she not be so defensive and sensitive about Ukraine, since nobody here, to the best of my knowledge, is out to defame, condemn, or annihalate it! wink

Alice, Moderator

Re: Holy Fire going to the North Pole [Re: Alice] #319420 04/20/09 02:00 AM
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Logos - Alexis Offline
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"I would also suggest to Halia that she not be so defensive and sensitive about Ukraine, since nobody here, to the best of my knowledge, is out to defame, condemn, or annihalate it! ;)"

Precisely! We're only out to do that for Russia. Right, guys? wink

Alexis

Re: Holy Fire going to the North Pole [Re: Logos - Alexis] #319431 04/20/09 07:06 AM
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Fr Serge Keleher Offline
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It is, of course, possible to offend people unintentionally. In the case of the Canadians, the national anthem (English version) contains the phrase "the true North, strong and free", so it is not startling that a Canadian likes to remind people that one version of the North Pole is in Canada!

Finally - and I hope this really is finally - may we all take to heart words that we chanted triumphantly yesterday and will be chanting again today:

"let us embrace one another, and in the Resurrection let us forgive all things, and so let us cry CHRIST IS RISEN!"

Fr. Serge

Re: Holy Fire going to the North Pole [Re: Pani Rose] #319497 04/21/09 01:21 AM
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Marian Offline
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This Holy Pascha, at the initiative of the Patriarch Daniel, the Holy Fire was brought from the Holy Tomb with a charter. Then this Holy Fire was sent further to the episcopates from all the country.

At the midnight we all here took light which was brought from Jerusalem. I felt peace and joy, the sermon of Saint John Chrysostom was more beautiful, the reading of the Paschal Evangelia was same, we all rised the lighted candles and sang Christ was Risen from the death....

Our bishop spoke also about the prayer of St. Gregor Palamas, whose Holy Remains will come soon here.
Sorry for poor English.

Christ is Risen! Xristos anesti! Hristos a inviat!

Re: Holy Fire going to the North Pole [Re: Irish Melkite] #319535 04/21/09 03:22 PM
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Halia12 Offline
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The press agency that issued this story is “World of Mysteries” and it was this agency that chose what I believe is an offensive title: “Russian Believers to Take Holy Fire to the North Pole.”

I managed to tract down the original article issued by the Russian press agency Interfax and that article does not include the words “North Pole”.

19 April 2009, 12:51

Holy Fire arrives at Russian Arctic research station

Barneo (Arctic), April 19, Interfax - The Holy Fire has been brought to the Barneo Arctic research station and handed over to the Russian polar researchers.

The ceremony involved Vladimir Yakunin, the chairman of the Board of Trustees of the St. Andrew the First-Called Foundation, and Artur Chilingarov, a lawmaker and chairman of the Association of Polar Researchers.

A prayer service was conducted, followed by a procession with the Holy Fire, ignited in Jerusalem on Saturday.

A special flight carrying the Holy Fire took off from Moscow's Vnukovo-3 airport on Easter Night, earlier reports said.

The fire burning in icon lamp was brought to Spitsbergen, and then the delegation took it to Barneo aboard another flight.

http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=5946


Thus, you can see that the original post does not include the words “North Pole”. I think the poster showed poor judgment in posting an article connecting Russian with the North Pole. I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt since maybe she is not aware of the controversy between Canada and Russia at the moment over the ownership of the North Pole and other Artic regions. This topic has certainly has been in the press.

The second issue has to deal with the claims of the Moscow Patriarchate and its daughter, the OCA to jurisdictions over all of North America . Since the reunion of the MP and the ROCOR outside of Russia , the MP has actually increased its press coverage and efforts to extend its jurisdiction over Orthodox believers around the world who have some connection in the past with the former USSR or the Russian Empire in the days of the Tsar. This of course included ethnic Ukrainians.


However, the Ecumenical Patriarchate claims jurisdiction over all “barbarian” lands. In Canada , the two major Orthodox churches, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada and the Greek Orthodox are both under the jurisdiction of the Ecumenical patriarchate.

I know people on this forum are aware of this issue because of the discussion on another thread about Metropolitan Jonah’s (OCA) speech.

I find this Forum to be increasing intolerant of Canada and Ukrainians, both in Canada and in Ukraine itself. Canada was founded as a bi-lingual country and has two codes of law. Canada is also officially a multi-cultural country. Canada does not pursue an assimilationist policy. This Forum has one poster (Neil) who attaches this comment to the bottom of his posts:

"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."


I find this extremely offensive and have written to him in the past about it and received no reply. I am a fourth generation Ukrainian-Canadian. Both sides of my family came to Canada in the 1890’s. I have no desire to have my “ethnic traits” disappear. Nor does my church. Nor does the Greek Orthodox Church in Canada. The province in which I grew up in Western Canada has a bilingual school system Ukrainian-English schools for the public (elementary) school system. I am a product of this background.


I find some of the posters on this Forum have an attitude which assume that all of us “cradle Orthodox” will “disappear”. That is not the case. And I think that is the main issue here. I think some of the posters of this Forum are intolerant of people who want to maintain their ethnic heritage and the customs of their church.

I am questioning why I as a craddle Orthodox and as a Ukrainian-Canadian would want to participate on this Forum when I see the ideals I love and respect be constantly insulted.







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