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Re: Antimension [Re: Pavel Ivanovich] #321747
05/10/09 10:41 PM
05/10/09 10:41 PM
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Missouri USA
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Altar Server Offline OP
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They are somtimes placed in during Mass but more often as being constructed.

Re: Antimension [Re: Matta] #321751
05/10/09 11:43 PM
05/10/09 11:43 PM
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New Jersey
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Fr David Straut Offline
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Originally Posted by Matta
The corporal is not the equivalent of the antimension. It is the equivalent of the eiliton--the (usually) white cloth, in which the antimension is folded.

I have never seen a white eiliton used in an Orthodox Church. The most common colour is red, much like the communion cloth.

Fr David Straut


Re: Antimension [Re: Fr David Straut] #321764
05/11/09 05:22 AM
05/11/09 05:22 AM
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Australia
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We use red or white. I have seen the same colours used in the same way in the Antiochian Orthodox Church. Perhaps it's a Middle Eastern thing?

Re: Antimension [Re: Matta] #321765
05/11/09 07:02 AM
05/11/09 07:02 AM
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Western Australia
Pavel Ivanovich Offline
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A number of UGCC churches have the antimensia under the top altar clothes. THe old Ritualists do this as well from previous postings on this topic.

I saw the same at Grottaferrata in the 90's. Although on one day there was a big feast and then there was one suddenly placed under the Gospel book to be unfolded out at the usual time while the the one that was always under the altar cloths remained.

Re: Antimension [Re: Etnick] #321780
05/11/09 08:42 AM
05/11/09 08:42 AM
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I don't think it is since I've been camping and on retreats when the priest just puts a white cloth and a corporal on say a dinning table.

Last edited by Altar Server; 05/11/09 08:42 AM.
Re: Antimension [Re: Pavel Ivanovich] #321782
05/11/09 08:50 AM
05/11/09 08:50 AM
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Rio de Janeiro/ RJ - Brazil
Philippe Gebara Offline
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I knew that red eiliton was of Russian usage. But one time I went to a Greek (Hellenic) Orthodox Church and I saw it.

Re: Antimension [Re: Philippe Gebara] #321789
05/11/09 10:14 AM
05/11/09 10:14 AM
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Kansas/UGCC
Diak Offline
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Quote
I knew that red eiliton was of Russian usage. But one time I went to a Greek (Hellenic) Orthodox Church and I saw it.


That is standard UGCC usage as well, with the red illiton often having embroidery around the border and an embroidered cross in the center (as can also be found on the illiton of the Old Ritualists).

Re: Antimension [Re: Altar Server] #321794
05/11/09 10:46 AM
05/11/09 10:46 AM
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Posts: 1,125
Florida
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Epiphanius Offline
Za myr z'wysot ...
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Originally Posted by Altar Server
Originally Posted by Etnick
There used to be an "altar stone". Don't know if it's still in use since the high altars fell into disuse.
I don't think it is since I've been camping and on retreats when the priest just puts a white cloth and a corporal on say a dinning table.
AS,

What happened was, the use of the Altar Stone became "optional." To the legalistic mind, if something's not absolutely required, then it's absolutely ridiculous to bother with it (Friday abstinence is another example).

Thus, the use of the altar stone has been "all but abolished" in the Latin Church, although I've heard it's making something of a comeback. (Not so for the antimension, however ...)


Peace,
Deacon Richard

Re: Antimension [Re: Epiphanius] #321814
05/11/09 02:11 PM
05/11/09 02:11 PM
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Georgia
Logos - Alexis Offline
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Friday abstinence is still required if one doesn't decide to do a good work of some sort.

Recently, a U.S. diocesan bishop just made it clear that it is his will, and will hopefully be the norm of practice in the diocese, to abstain on all Fridays throughout the year.

Alexis

Re: Antimension [Re: Logos - Alexis] #321906
05/12/09 02:26 PM
05/12/09 02:26 PM
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Epiphanius Offline
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Originally Posted by Logos - Alexis
Friday abstinence is still required if one doesn't decide to do a good work of some sort.
Alexis,

Yes, but the point I was making was relative to the fact that before Vatican II it was required under penalty of mortal sin--i.e. the equivalent of a capital offense. eek Clearly, this was done in order to get people to take it seriously, which they certainly did. Once this penalty was lifted, the prevailing attitude was that for all intents and purposes there was no requirement. My point was to use this as an illustrative example of how legalism works.

Originally Posted by Logos - Alexis
Recently, a U.S. diocesan bishop just made it clear that it is his will, and will hopefully be the norm of practice in the diocese, to abstain on all Fridays throughout the year.

And if he is successful in getting a high rate of compliance, it will show that his people are mature enough to be motivated by something other than the threat of eternal damnation. cool


Peace,
Deacon Richard

Re: Antimension [Re: Epiphanius] #321912
05/12/09 03:22 PM
05/12/09 03:22 PM
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Dublin
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Fr Serge Keleher Offline
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You never know - how many Catholics knew the precise amount of meat one might eat on a Friday without committing a mortal sin?

Fr. Serge

Re: Antimension [Re: Fr Serge Keleher] #321915
05/12/09 03:35 PM
05/12/09 03:35 PM
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Philippines
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asianpilgrim Offline
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Originally Posted by Serge Keleher
In the twentieth century, as a result of large numbers of Latin chaplains in the armed services of various countries, requesting antimensia from Greek-Catholic bishops, the Latins invented the "antimensium Latinum", which is used in a similar way to the Byzantine antimensium but does not carry either ornamention or the signature of the bishop - the "antimensium Latinum" is blessed by a priest, and does carry relics.

Father Januarius Izzo's book on the antimension discussed the "antimensium Latinum" as well. However, now that Latin clergy are not required to celebrate the Mass on the relics of the Saints, they seldom if ever make use of any form of the antimension.

Fr. Serge


With the "Tridentine Rite" coming back into vogue, there will be more requests for these Latin antimensia (given that so many altars either have no relics or have had their relics pried off). I know for a fact that some SSPX priests use Latin antimensia.

Last edited by asianpilgrim; 05/12/09 03:37 PM.
Re: Antimension [Re: asianpilgrim] #321935
05/12/09 06:13 PM
05/12/09 06:13 PM
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Western Australia
Pavel Ivanovich Offline
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Then they should buy themsleves an altar stone like what was used before. There must be loads of these stored away somewhere. Some altars even had a space in the top of the altar for them to be placed. the only reason the Latins got what they got was due to the WWII and the need for things to be light and able to be take up less space in Padre's backback as he moved along with the troops.

cool

Re: Antimension [Re: Pavel Ivanovich] #321936
05/12/09 06:16 PM
05/12/09 06:16 PM
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Posts: 6,324
Hollidaysburg, PA
theophan Offline
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There must be loads of these stored away somewhere.


Try landfills. That's where the three from my home parish went.

Re: Antimension [Re: theophan] #321937
05/12/09 06:22 PM
05/12/09 06:22 PM
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Missouri USA
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wait should they not have been burried ? since they are consecrated/blessed?

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