The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
Annlouise, Taylor, Randy Danielson, TAFrazer, PNCC Random Guy
5,770 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 48 guests, and 33 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Byzantine Nebraska
Byzantine Nebraska
by orthodoxsinner2, December 11
Church of the Holy Trinity (UGCC) - Brazil
Church of the Holy Trinity (UGCC) - Brazil
by Santiago Tarsicio, March 17
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
by JLF, November 10
Upgraded Russian icon corner
Upgraded Russian icon corner
by The young fogey, October 20
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,056
Posts414,079
Members5,770
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 9 of 10 1 2 7 8 9 10
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 700
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 700
Him speaking there doesn't bother me much.

Him getting the Honorary Doctorate from a Catholic College smacks of endorsing his pro-abortion stance.

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,264
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,264
Originally Posted by carson daniel lauffer
ebed,

I fully concur with your comments. It may come as a surprise to Pustinik but one of my best friends a Black colleague who is a Catholic, who is opposed to abortion, who is a Republican would disagree with him most strongly.

CDL


Yes - the great "liberal lie" is that voters exist in neatly packaged, almost hermetically sealed social identity groups which form voting blocks (or at least they should). If someone strays from the metanarrative, they are clearly either duped or a social heretic.

They just don't "GET IT."

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,285
AthanasiusTheLesser
Member
Offline
AthanasiusTheLesser
Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,285
Originally Posted by ebed melech
Originally Posted by carson daniel lauffer
ebed,

I fully concur with your comments. It may come as a surprise to Pustinik but one of my best friends a Black colleague who is a Catholic, who is opposed to abortion, who is a Republican would disagree with him most strongly.

CDL


Yes - the great "liberal lie" is that voters exist in neatly packaged, almost hermetically sealed social identity groups which form voting blocks (or at least they should). If someone strays from the metanarrative, they are clearly either duped or a social heretic.

They just don't "GET IT."


I really don't think this problem is limited to liberals.

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,405
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,405
Excellent, incisive commentary by George Weigel, who claims that Pres. Obama is trying to define who is a "real" 21st-century Catholic:

http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=YzNhZDI1MDAyMjcwNTFhMDM3NDZkOGQ5ZWZhOGUzNWI=

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,133
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,133
Vatican: Obama seeks "common ground" on abortion

A bit disappointing as I had high hopes for the current Pope to take a stronger anti-abortion position.


Last edited by Irish Melkite; 05/19/09 06:10 AM. Reason: create hyperlink
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,528
Grateful
Member
Offline
Grateful
Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,528
I am glad to see this. Perhaps tempers are cooling enough for a rapprochement.

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,214
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,214
One is free to seek common ground where there is none, as on the issue of life and when it begins. I have to wonder if the praise from Vatican is a diplomatic tongue-in-cheek.

Terry

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 302
A
Roman Catholic
Member
Offline
Roman Catholic
Member
A
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 302
I have to say I'm very disapointed about this. frown

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 442
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 442
Hello All:

I will brief here so as not to derail this thread. Can we all please not throw around the liberal and conservative word? It is way to easy to pigeon hole people by hanging these titles on them. I for example am considered liberal by those who consider themselves as conservatives and by the liberals I am considered a conservative. We all for the most part probably all lean a little to the left or the right unless we are so deep in the forest we can't see the trees. There is a polarization of extremes on both ends of the political spread which puts us at loggerheads with one another, nothing is being accomplished. And for the record, I am opposed to abortion. It seems to me that in general when folks start to talk about politics there is very little charity for one another, at least that has been my experience. If further discussion on the forum about this particular subject is desired I ask the moderator to start a new thread so as not to derail the one already started here.

In Christ:
Einar

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,949
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,949
Originally Posted by Converted Viking
Hello All:

I will brief here so as not to derail this thread. Can we all please not throw around the liberal and conservative word? It is way to easy to pigeon hole people by hanging these titles on them. I for example am considered liberal by those who consider themselves as conservatives and by the liberals I am considered a conservative. We all for the most part probably all lean a little to the left or the right unless we are so deep in the forest we can't see the trees. There is a polarization of extremes on both ends of the political spread which puts us at loggerheads with one another, nothing is being accomplished. And for the record, I am opposed to abortion. It seems to me that in general when folks start to talk about politics there is very little charity for one another, at least that has been my experience. If further discussion on the forum about this particular subject is desired I ask the moderator to start a new thread so as not to derail the one already started here.

In Christ:
Einar


Hi Einar,

There is nothing wrong with your post. You make valid and charitable points.

If people are discussing moral values as 'liberal' or 'conservative', I see nothing wrong with that.

If people are categorizing political parties, I agree that it isn't always fair to generalize like that, but it has, unfortunately, become common to label the two main parties as 'liberal' vs. 'conservative'...

Alice, Moderator

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,949
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,949
Quote
Instead, it simply quoted Obama as inviting all Americans to work together to reduce the number of abortions and unwanted pregnancies, and concluded he was searching for common ground on the "delicate question of abortion."


If Pres. Obama does NOT overturn the ban on partial birth abortion, then this is a good statement. If he does, then anything he says is bogus..

However, let's say he does not overturn the ban on partial birth abortion...even then, talk is cheap. Abortions will never be reduced unless our culture stops feeding sexual obsession to our young people. Is he willing to tackle that??? He should be because he has daughters.

My daughter went to a girl's Catholic high school. The Principle was a nun, who was very aware of all that was going on with many of the girls and sex. She did not live in a fool's paradise or in a state of denial. She did all she could do. She brought in the best Catholic speakers (who were also 'with it' and aware of the truth about what is really going on), but Sister conceeded that it was very, very, difficult to bring the girls to see (for more than a few days here and there) that they shouldn't be engaging in sexual activity. She knew that society's influence was far stronger these days than anything a parent, a school, a speaker, a teacher, a priest, or a church could influence them with. As long as very young people have promiscuous sex, the number of abortions will not come down. Since they are having promiscous sex, and not practicing chastity, the numbers will not come down because they are also too irresponsible and stupid to use birth control or to use it properly. (Ofcourse, this shows that chastity is the only answer until one gets married, but that just isn't happening)

There is too much wrong these days, too much hedonism, too much sin and too much evil that is imposed on us all by our society, too much confusion about life and futures and employment and religion and God, and truly innocent lives suffer because of it.

I don't think we can put our faith in a President, in a law, in laws, in judges, or anything else because there is too much polarization of values and understanding of the other's viewpoint...In a way, there is too much action from one side and too much REaction from the other side...Some common ground would be good, and atleast, President Obama is conceding this in his statement.

I think we need to put our faith in God and just pray that He will put an end to the confusion of the evil one, and that Divine Enlightenment will put all things in order for the good of the innocents, for the good of the salvation of the souls already alive, for the good of the world. We may not be worthy, and God has perhaps turned His face away from us, but in all things we can cry out: Kyrie Eleison, Lord have mercy on us and the whole world, and leave it to Him to fix things through the Holy Spirit and its enlightenment on people's minds and hearts, if He so wills.

Alice


Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,214
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,214
Here is the crux of what he covered on abortion:

"So let us work together to reduce the number of women seeking abortions, let's reduce unintended pregnancies. Let's make adoption more available. Let's provide care and support for women who do carry their children to term. Let's honor the conscience of those who disagree with abortion, and draft a sensible conscience clause, and make sure that all of our health care policies are grounded not only in sound science, but also in clear ethics, as well as respect for the equality of women. Those are things we can do."

After overturning the Mexico City policy he has not so far worked to reduce abortions. He has done the opposite.

These words sound good but have not been supported by current or past actions and positions. I will remember what he said here, though I am confused by his last point. What does the equality of women have to do with abortion? Men can't have an abortion.

I will be surprised if the NOW gang doesn't balk at his referring to abortion as a heart-wrenching decision.

Terry

Last edited by Terry Bohannon; 05/19/09 04:36 PM.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 442
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 442
The whole abortion/genocide issue<I will call it what it is>is a problem of not of government but of us. In short we have been yelling, screaming, pleading, threatening to vote for the other guy and yet nothing has come down the political turn pike to put an end to abortion. Neither the Republicans who have had control for the past 8 years or the Democrats have done anything to stop this evil.

I would humbly suggest that we start praying a lot more and put this matter in Gods hands. We can demonstrate from now until the end of time and nothing is going to change. I agree with Alice, there is great evil in this world. Perhaps we all need to look at our ourselves and root out what ever evil we might hold<starting with myself, a sinner>Hearts must be changed before we will see good prevail. I do believe that Satan is very much alive and well, unfortunately I think many do not think about this and we have become lazy. A little evil here and there and everywhere is Satan's tool. It doesn't look so bad when we see it in bits and pieces but it all adds up to the mess we are in. Our worlds problems start in our own hearts.

In Christ:
Einar

Last edited by Converted Viking; 05/19/09 05:36 PM.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,949
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,949
Originally Posted by Terry Bohannon
Here is the crux of what he covered on abortion:


After overturning the Mexico City policy he has not so far worked to reduce abortions. He has done the opposite.

These words sound good but have not been supported by current or past actions and positions. ...

Terry


Mexico City policy:

Scope of the policy

The policy required non-governmental organizations to "agree as a condition of their receipt of [U.S.] federal funds" that they would "neither perform nor actively promote abortion as a method of family planning in other nations".[3] The policy had exceptions for abortions done in response to rape, incest, or life-threatening conditions.[4]

President Bush promised to veto any legislation which would eliminate the Mexico City Policy.[11]

On January 23, 2009, President Barack Obama rescinded the policy once again....With unusual speed, the Vatican condemned Obama's Jan. 23 repeal of the ban on U.S. funding for foreign family planning aid groups who offer abortion


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico_City_Policy

This is where there are so many extremes in thought!

What does family planning, aka: birth control practiced by responsible, adult married, monagamous couples to plan the size of their families, have to do with abortion?!?!

Since when did abortion become a 'method of family planning'!?!?

Alice

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564
F
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564
Dear Alice,

Check the abortion statistics in the old USSR - it had become the most widely-used method of contraception (strictly speaking that is incorrect by definition, since one could scarcely have an abortion before conception, but you get the idea).

Fr. Serge

Page 9 of 10 1 2 7 8 9 10

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2020 (Forum 1998-2020). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5