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#322655 05/22/09 11:41 AM
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I am not sure if this will be considered a different topic. To me it is the same topic. I was wondering how everyone feels about The Orthodox and Catholic churches coming together as one. I would love to see it and have my ideas as to what is keeping that from happening. I know others will have different ideas. I am down to the final Days of writing about St. Photius/Photius for the Catholic Church. I am pulling myself away from the topic to give him the credit due. I found some great info on EWTN's website too. The question is...
What will it take for the Orthodox and Catholic Churches to be in communion with each other ? I think the Holy Fathers speech was beautiful, very respectful and inviting. I would love to be able to site this website in my paper but need some help as far as opinions. The St. Photius Shrine was very helpful in allowing me to use some books from their private library. How awesome is that?
Thanks for any help you offer. I also have a Greek Orthodox priest that has helped me with some info but St. Photius doesn't seem to be his specialty. I have received little help from him on the subject. He siad there isn't much written on him.
Thank you to anyone willing to voice an opinion on any of it.

Last edited by Father Anthony; 05/22/09 11:44 AM. Reason: split from another thread in Church News
Cmoore #322684 05/22/09 10:01 PM
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Personally, I'm all for it... however... it is unlikely to happen soon due to:

1) the papacy as archpatriarchate
1a) in the same sense as Metropolitans to suffragans, and as Patriarchs to Metropolitans
1b) Not using that correlation publicly.

2) The definition of supreme authority being the Pope and/or council, instead of just the council when headed by the pope.

3) Moscow's claims to primacy over Rome and Byzantium

4) Roman Theology being the de facto standard.

5) Human Nature

It should be noted that the relationship of the Pope to the patriachs being akin to that of Metropolitans to suffragans is drawn from Assyrian Church sources; I don't have the cite to hand, but it was quoted by the ACE bishop who brought most of his diocese into union with Rome.

aramis #322686 05/22/09 10:09 PM
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Is Moscow really asserting primacy over Rome these days? Talk about chutzpah!

Fr. Serge

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Father,

Would you care to answer this question? Any comment at all? I am interested in hearing what an Orthodox Christian thinks about Ecumenism. St. Photius was an ecumenical leader which is ironic that he is blamed for the separation. People say there were mistakes made on both sides. I think many here are affraid to speak up at times since the community may look down upon someone with a different view. I personal

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Father,

Do you have an opinion on this topic? I would love to hear it. I know you are knowlegeable and respect your opinion. I am looking for an Orhtodox view on the topic of Ecumenism. I have a feeling you are not going to like this next line but I want to include this hypothesis in my paper.
What if the Catholic Church had 3 rites under the umbrella?
Thank you to all that have responded

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Originally Posted by Serge Keleher
Is Moscow really asserting primacy over Rome these days? Talk about chutzpah!

Fr. Serge


Not so certain about "These Days" but it is rhetoric I've heard from OCA faithful in Alaska all my life. Not all of them, but enough.

It's also something that was part of their imperial approach to other churches historically (my bachelors degree was in History, with a Russian History emphasis; didn't cover past about 1950).

Cmoore #322726 05/23/09 09:00 AM
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I usually try to respond to questions addressed to me. But in this instance I'm not sure what the questions are. Can you clarify this for me?

Fr. Serge

Cmoore #322739 05/23/09 12:12 PM
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hi - I'm new and this is my first post.

I am Roman Catholic and very interested in seeing our catholic churches united as one in Christ, the mystical body here on Earth. I was totally enamored with seeing all of the patriarchs, bishops, and pope B16, at the April 2008 mass in Wash. D.C. The unity and the supernatural grace to bring so many belivers together is why I am catholic. I am Roman Catholic, primarily due to my native american, spanish and croatian heritage, and it was the Roman Catholics that saved my taino race from the destructive protestant English....

About reuniting:
For some reason, I thought that the Roman and the Eastern Church was reunited in 1999 under Pope JP 2. I may be mistaken and I guess I have to look that all back up again. I do know about the great miracle that was happening to get our Church leaders going on this topic:
http://www.unitypublishing.com/damascus.html

As for those outside any catholic church who claim to be christians, I hate to say that I find these so far left in the schizim of what a christian is/is not, I am not interested in them at all.

So, I am here to find out more about my brothers and sisters in Christ's mystical body, and to see where we all stand when it comes to the unity that we demonstrate to the world.
Peace!

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Yes, Father I will clarify; I was wondering if you would share an opinion or Orthodox view on ecumenism. I had a lot more written then I deleted it all because I DO NOT want to offend anyone. I respect the Orthodox view even if my opinion is that it is more outdated than people think the Roman Catholic Church is (not saying it is a bad thing). I understand rules standards and keeping the faith. Protecting what has been handed down by the apostles (even the Orthodox have change some things). MY feeling is with an apostolic begining, we should be united.

What is stoping that from happening?
Why don't the Orthodox Christians want to be a part of the Catholic Church? What if the Orthodox Church was allowed to operated the same way would they/could they be Orthodox Catholics? (a different rite per say) Maybe it is a purely hypothetical question. I understand if you don't want to be open about this so maybe you could give me a hypothetical answer. Does that clarify my question?

I asked my Pastor and his view was that for the Orthodox to unite with the Catholic Church Rome would need to bend a little. Will that happen? Is that even a desire for the Orthodox Church? Doesn't the Lord want us all to be ONE? Wouldn't reuniting send a message to the world? I don't need an answer to every question written. They are there to explain my question ...."WHY NOT?"

I hope I was able to write this respectfully and get my question accross at the same time.

Thank you Fr. Serge if you do guide me to at least try to understand the Orthodox view on this subject. I know it is a touchy subject.

Cmoore #322779 05/23/09 03:01 PM
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HA I see part of my post made it through before I stoped it. No wonder you are confused. I think part of it could have been construed as offensive and stoped it and sent the next one which is quite vague. I wasn't sure if you would even acknowledge my question Fr. Serge so I am thankful that you are reading this too.

Would the Orthodox Church see St, Photius as an Ecumenical leader? Is he considered a Father of the Orthodox Church? I know he has a Feast Day on Feb 6th. Here are just a few more questions. I will write my paper with both Catholic and Orhtodox views on St. Photius. I like what I have read about him. Our local Bishop spoke about the filioque. He asked the confirmation candidates about the Holy Spirit and did they know who that was. His answer to that is "The Love from the Father and the Son" I found that interesting even after hearing it the second year in a row. I consider the Trinity so much a mystery that trying to explain it is beyond comprehension. People try, we believe, we argue and remain separated over words. I know it isn't the only thing separating us but it is what the Photian Schism is all about. My own view on the Holy spirit is the communication from Heaven to Earth. From God to his people and that is only from experience. God does speak to his people. I also believe that the The Catholic Church will stand behind the filioque since it is in the Bible in John's Gospel "In the beging was God and the Word was with God...The Word made flesh". I think the Patriarchs were angry it was changed with out being in agreement. Would they have agreeded? Maybe they would have? We don't know.

Sorry about having more questions and for having so much to say. LOL. I have no position in the Catholic Church other than Catechist and parishoner. I am a student looking to learn.
Thank you for any answering any questions I have posted.

Ruskovic #322790 05/23/09 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Ruskovic
hi - I'm new and this is my first post.

I am Roman Catholic and very interested in seeing our catholic churches united as one in Christ, the mystical body here on Earth. I was totally enamored with seeing all of the patriarchs, bishops, and pope B16, at the April 2008 mass in Wash. D.C. The unity and the supernatural grace to bring so many belivers together is why I am catholic. I am Roman Catholic, primarily due to my native american, spanish and croatian heritage, and it was the Roman Catholics that saved my taino race from the destructive protestant English....

About reuniting:
For some reason, I thought that the Roman and the Eastern Church was reunited in 1999 under Pope JP 2. I may be mistaken and I guess I have to look that all back up again. I do know about the great miracle that was happening to get our Church leaders going on this topic:
http://www.unitypublishing.com/damascus.html

As for those outside any catholic church who claim to be christians, I hate to say that I find these so far left in the schizim of what a christian is/is not, I am not interested in them at all.

So, I am here to find out more about my brothers and sisters in Christ's mystical body, and to see where we all stand when it comes to the unity that we demonstrate to the world.
Peace!


Umm you said
Quote
For some reason, I thought that the Roman and the Eastern Church was reunited in 1999 under Pope JP 2.


I'm completely unaware of that - and may I ask what you actually mean when you say << the Eastern Church >>

you said
Quote
As for those outside any catholic church who claim to be christians, I hate to say that I find these so far left in the schizim of what a christian is/is not, I am not interested in them at all.


I will say publicly that I find that expression totally offensive to our Orthodox Brethren.

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Fr. Serge,

I just learned in another post that you are from the UGCC and so your input would still be valued but not the Orthodox view I was hoping to find.

Would anyone else be so kind to share? I will not be offended I promise. You could even send it in a private message. Outdated books are a good reference but personal views and real feelings of today help explain the on going gap between the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church (I know it is general) I know there will be many view points some may be personal. Can we put differences aside?

I thank anyone that is willing to share and will continue to pray for Christian Unity through out the world.

Cmoore #322814 05/23/09 07:37 PM
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I found this to be informative and helpful. I may not agree with all of it or even understand some of the views but I will use some of it in my paper as to what keeps us apart. I hope the link shows up so others can view.

http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage?reading/ortho_cath.html

then click on Orhtodox reading and it is #2 titled Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism. When I googled it I just got this page but when I entered the address above I got an entire Orhtodox site that I need to look around a little more. Maybe I will find more there?

My newest question is do Orthodox Christains study or do they just accept what they have been taught? This came to me after digesting the part on Faith and Reason. Am I trying to reason my existance and roots in Catholisicm? Don't converts to any religion come from thier studying and their own faith journey? Why are there so many choices? I don't expect answers to these questions they just came to mind and I am sharing them with anyone reading this here.


Last edited by Cmoore; 05/23/09 07:48 PM.
Cmoore #322828 05/23/09 11:34 PM
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After reading some of the writing on the web site I posted I found page #3 to be somewhat offensive. Anyway here is a question I have been thinking about. If the Orthodox Church claims that it has not changed....Why is Holy Communion served on a spoon? Jesus did not feed the apostles His body and His blood together on a spoon. I do understand the reverence. It is just a question of change more than anything else. A contradiction of a statement about being unchanged. It is how I received my first holy communion so I am curious.

Cmoore #322842 05/24/09 02:47 AM
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Hi Cmoore, like you, I’m a Latin rite catholic.

Your find about half of the Eastern Orthodox churches very hostile to us, due to many sins committed by both side to each other. The Russian Orthodox Church claims about half of all the Eastern orthodox and has been in the past very combative with their bother Orthodox calming primacy over the Ecumenical Patriarchate. The Russian Orthodox Church also has refused to talk to the pope due to the Greek Catholic Church in the Ukraine. Lately the smoke has been clearing with the new Patriarch Kirill and maybe just maybe your get what we all wish, because if Russia agrees the rest may fall in place.

The rest of the Orthodox, that is the Oriental Orthodox are somewhat more likely to reunite first before the Eastern Orthodox.

I think most any one will say that we would have to remove the Roman Curia as an Ecumenical body, they can stay as a local church council to unite the Churches.

Below your find some helpful link.

http://en.hilarion.orthodoxia.org/ http://en.hilarion.orthodoxia.org/
http://www.interfax-religion.com/
http://orthodoxeurope.org/
http://www.ec-patr.org/default.php?lang=en
http://www.risu.org.ua/eng/
http://www.nestorian.org/unofficial_home_page_of_the_on.html
http://www.intratext.com/X/ENG1199.HTM
http://www.east2west.org/ecumenism.htm
http://orthodoxwiki.org/Main_Page

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