This speaks for itself:
May God have mercy on their souls.

Pani Rose
NBC-TV SHOW ANGERS CATHOLICS NATIONWIDE

During the February 22 episode of the NBC-TV sitcom, “Committed,” two non-Catholics are mistakenly given Holy Communion at a Catholic funeral Mass. Nate, who is Jewish, and Bowie, a Protestant, don’t know what to do with the Eucharist, so they make several failed attempts to get rid of it. For example, they try slipping it into the pocket of a priest, dropping it on a tray of cheese and crackers, etc.

At one point, the priest, who is portrayed as not knowing the difference between the Host and a cracker, goes to grab the “cracker” from a tray of appetizers; he initially balks when he discovers that it is the last one. Then he changes his mind, saying, “Oh, what the hell.” By far the most offensive scene occurs when Nate and Bowie accidentally flush what they think is the Host down the toilet.

Catholic League president William Donohue commented on this today:

“It’s been quite a while since we’ve been deluged with as many complaints as this episode of ‘Committed’ fielded. To say that Catholics are angry about this show would be an understatement—the outrage is visceral and intense. The complaints have come from bishops, college chaplains, pastors and the laity, and they have come from all over the country. With good reason: NBC has made a direct frontal assault on Roman Catholicism, choosing to mock, trivialize and ridicule the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ.

“What happened was deliberate. According to a January 2 story in the Cincinnati Enquirer, the writers for the series, Eileen Heisler and DeAnn Heline, have been encouraged by NBC executives ‘to push the limits of comedy.’ For obvious reasons, the writers of ‘Roseanne,’ ‘Murphy Brown’ and ‘Ellen’ chose not to push the buttons of homosexuals (or some other protected group), so they decided to play it safe and stay in good standing with their bosses by bashing Catholics.

“More than an apology is needed. This episode should be retired for good, and that is what we will demand.”
http://www.catholicleague.org/05press_releases/quarter%201/050224_nbctv.htm

Everyone of the 68 million Catholics in this Country should boycott NBC and make their protest SHOUT thrhough all the offices of NBC.
Stephanos I
This is totally inexcusable.
If there is a way of contacting NBC please let me know.

Oh, is nothing sacred anymore? Some t.v. shows belittle, mock, or imply negative things about religious principals and practices. Usually it is more subtle than this but it IS there and so much a part of the programming that it must have a negative influence on many viewers-especially younger viewers who are vulnerable to such things.


It is getting scarry when anything goes just to get a laugh.

My prayers.

In Christ,

Mary Jo

Anti-Catholicism is the last acceptable prejudice.

Profoundly true!

I had never seen this show before, but I happened to catch this particular episode since I was watching Scrubs at a friend's and it came on afterwards.

I found it to be in horrible taste. When they began the funeral scene, I thought that the worst part would be that the "Catholic priest" was dressed in a shirt, tie, and Protestant choir robe (even in the bar after the funeral). How wrong I was! The episode just went downhill from there.

Dave

I didn't see this, but it makes me glad I have given up network television.

I recall quite a few years ago, that some writers were asked why they wrote scripts that were immoral, used profanity, etc. They responded that they knew that by doing so, the movie would not make more money, but they just wanted to see how far they could go.

If I recall correctly, the writers names were Irish. What a pity?

Zenovia

It makes me glad I blew up my last television set with a shotgun back in 1987.

Often I have felt like trashing television. Then, I wonder how I would watch the Steelers.

I generally ignore commerical network television. Sitcoms are so much crud anymore.

I still have the TV, but my interests are History Channel, Learning Channel, Discovery, - you know, typical nerd stuff. Wonder who the sponsors were on that network show? That's the place to apply pressure.

Hollywood has terrible business sense they openly offend 30 percent (catholics) of its possible viewing audinece yet caters to a 3 percent viewing audience of homosexuals.
Not to mention they often offend born-again christians another 50 percent of the population.

And they wonder why network tv rating go down every year? Why no one watches the grammys or the oscars anymore. Maybe becasue they glorify raunch?

What Hollywood fails to notice is that more people are on church on Sunday than go to movies during the week. They are missing out of bid audience. Or did they not notice the ticket receipts for the blockbuster the Passion?

Elvis? Is that you??

ROFL

I have done some digging here is the address
http://www.catholicleague.org/05press_releases/quarter%201/050224_nbctv.htm

Here is a list of the local affiliates
http://www.nbc.com/nbc/header/Local_Stations/

Washingtonpost.com doesn't have much nice to say about it, and they never mention the part Catholics are upset about. However, they seem to think there is no staying power for the show.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A46035-2005Jan3.html

I am horrified and shocked that this attitude is used for entertainment. It reflects values that nothing is truly sacred or that the beliefs of the Catholic and Orthodox traditions are something to make light of. Imagine the children and teens that think this is funny? But have a clergyman make a wring step, or protest supporting a value of the gospel and we are all considered narrow minded crack pots. We truly live in a post Christian society.

Father Anthony+

ROFL </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif">No Elvis started blowing up TV's in 1970.
HE was truly a man ahead of his time.
If I had a gun and I was watching this show I would be tempted to blow the tv set up myself.
But I don't have the luxury of having the money the King of Rock n RoOll had.

Here's my note to NBC.

"I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore. Did you really think that you could mock the most sacred element of the Christian faith and think we would not object? No, of course not. You ridiculed the Body and Blood of Christ in order to make fun of Christians, especially Catholic Christians on the Feb. 22 episode of "Committed". You people are pitiful.

NBC no longer exists in our household.

Carson Daniel Lauffer"

A different perspective - written by someone who saw the episode and commented before all the outrage - is here:
http://lovethelife.blogspot.com/

And the discussion over at Amy Welborn's blog is good.
http://amywelborn.typepad.com/openbook/2005/02/laff_riot.html#comments

I don't agree with those bloggers.

I truly do not understand some of the younger generation...it seems as if nothing is serious or sacred to them, and life is just one big relativistic experience.

Ofcourse, the great teacher, today's trashy television shows and other entertainment have raised them like this.

I can't believe that I used to actually be able to watch some network television with my then young son twelve years ago- between the hours of 8 and 10p.m. on all major networks was considered family appropriate broadcasting time.

I stopped watching *most* of network television a while ago, and Charles, I do agree with you that the History and Discovery channels are good entertainment amidst a vast wasteland on the airwaves. I also like to watch sitcoms from my youth on one of the channels...makes me nostalgic for the good old days when writers were good enough to make you laugh without blatant sexuality, depravity and other such vices. Even 'Three's Company' from the 1970's, which is actually quite funny, but which was considered 'risque' at the time, seems enviably innocent now! :rolleyes:

In Christ,
Alice

I neglected to mention the address to which I sent my compaint. NBCiQuestions@nbc.com

Will anyone read it? I don't know.

Dan L

Alice, I think you have touched on something significant. It's not just young people, but people in general don't recognize the difference between what is sacred, and what is secular. I particularly see it in church music, when folks want to bring their secular styles into church and put religious words to that music. I am often told it is just an attempt to make religion relevant. I often say that it can't be relevant if it is totally misunderstood to begin with. I also point out that walking inside the church doors is to enter into another world, a world set apart for the worship of God. The line between the sacred and secular has become so blurred, it's no longer recognizable. We have gone from the Biblical command to take off our shoes because we are on holy ground, to show up half-naked and do as you please, since it doesn't matter to God, anyway.

I would laugh if it were not so true.

By the way, I was watching "Hardball" last night on MSNBC. Chris Matthews was interviewing Gene Siskell (sp?), the famous movie critic from Chicago. They were discussing the movie "Million Dollar Baby" and the controversy surrounding it because it culminates in euthanasia. Both seemed to regard such criticism as fussiness. Then, Chris Matthews said some something which left me stunned. He compared "Million Dollar Baby" with "The Passion of the Christ" and said: "One of those two movies was about love." Yes. He actually said that. It stunned me because it was clear from his tone and his previous comments that he believed "Million Dollar Baby" and its euthanasia was about love; ergo, he felt that "The Passion of the Christ" was not about love. Unbelievable. I sat there stunned. If Jesus Christ did not endure shame, suffering and crucifixion for love of mankind, what then did He die for . . . and rise for? I actually prayed for Chris Matthews (and all who share his opinion) after he made that remark. Unbelievable -- yet, it happened. We live in a bizarre time when murdering someone in pain is considered love but when God become Man and dying for us and rising for us is not considered love.

But, but, how did Chris Matthews do this? Gene Siskel died a few years ago. Do you mean Roger Ebert?

Dan L

I always stayed confused about which was Siskel and which was Ebert. One was chubby and the other wasn't, which helped distinguish them a little, but not much.

:rolleyes: <ahem> I guess it was Roger Ebert then. It was the chubby one from the old duo of Siskel and Ebert.

Dear Dan,

I remember about 12 years ago, I would receive mailings from Don Wildmon telling people what shows should not be watched, who the sponsers were, and where to write. Actually he managed to have the sponsers remove their support.

Now what was amazing, is that one TV show, (the name deludes me), the producer refused to remove it, and had it shown at a financial loss. The next year, this producer put out a show that was even more obscene.

What was happening was most 'demonic'. The shows were being removed because of the complaints to the sponsers, and yet the year after, even worse shows would appear.

Simply amazing! These writers and producers managed to desensitize a whole generation. What is reality to these young people today, is not the same reality as we know it.

Zenovia

Chris Matthews claims to be a practicing catholic also.
Of coure he is from the Ted Kennedy, John Kerry liberal wing of cafeteria catholcism.
These men claim to be pro-choice in both abortion and euthanasia and catholic?
This is a contraditction in terms yet they do not see it.
Uhh the failure of american cathocism rears its ugly head again.
Worse yet Matthew spoke at a graduation at Nortre Dame not long ago.
Is that university still catholic?
Having guests speakers such as Matthews would discourage me from sending my child to this once unber catholic instition. It's modernist catholic instition now adays.

Yes, your post illustrates this failure vivdly.

I had a thought this morning while reading one of the prayers before Holy Communion.

I remembered seeing an anti-Catholic Protestant website several years back. This site showed a "diagram" of the Catholic Eucharist, before and after. First was a picture of a wafer with the caption "The God of the Catholics" or some such title; next to it was a picture of an outhouse or a toilet with the caption "The God of the Catholics an Hour Later." For some odd reason, this stuck in my mind.

The writers of "Committed" showed the two non-Catholic characters dropping, with great horror, what was thought to be the Host into the toilet. The more I think about it, the more it seems like a very deliberate and informed choice, reminiscent of the anti-Eucharistic rants of some Protestants. "It winds up in the toilet anyway..."

Maybe I am just reading too much into this.

Dave

Dear Dave,

That blasphemy that you are relaying from the Protestant website is so, so sad---that is why I am a great advocate of teaching love and tolerance among faith traditions, and of all Christians having an open mind and heart about each other--

We must do all we can in a gentle and loving manner to dispel the great myths and untruths we all sometimes believe and hear about each other.

It seems that anti-Catholicism is a cancerous fear for some, and the only acceptable prejudice allowed for others.

Sadly,
Alice

Dave,

Maybe. But you are the only one on the threads who indicates that he saw the show, and are, for the most part, a reasonble poster. So my guess is that you are not. You are however, talking about a subliminal message that is opposed by the overt one: I take it that in the Protestant track, there is no "horror", nor is there any accident, nor is there any case of mistaken identity such that it is a Nabisco cracker, not the host, which is dropped.

That distinction is what struck the blogger. In a strongly anti-Catholic culture - where the faith, morals, and practices of Catholics are routinely adn directly mocked, it was surprising to see the host treated, by non-cathoics no less, as something special. The very concept of the show was, however, grossly irreverent and deserving of criticism. (I must, admit, to having heard equally irreverent discussions of sacred particles here on this very forum.) So while I think, from what I have read, that the show was lacking sensitivity to Catholics, I thnk it is not correct to consider it anti-Catholic, like your Protestant ad, or most every reference to Catholics on television shows where beliefs are directly attacked.

I agree with djs. Catholicism in America has failed seriously if major politicians believe that they can hold positions that are directly contrary to Church Teaching and remain Catholics in good standing. We need to pray for these politicians, that they may come to accept and promote Church Teachings regarding life and work to promote a culture of life. We also need to pray for and encourage our bishops to speak more strongly about and to better educate the faithful on Church Teaching about these issues.

Dear Administrator,

What about the position taken by Canadian politicians that what they believe is something that cannot be imposed on others?

I would mention what Kerry had said, but I might anger some of our liberals to the point of them reporting me to you.

I've already got enough people miffed at me here . . .

Alex

Alex,

Those politicians who say that they cannot impose their morality upon others are being hypocritical. All law is an imposition of morality. Any politician who votes for or against a bill is voting to impose a particular morality upon the people. A vote for a law that restricts a vehicle from passing a stopped school bus, for example, takes its morality from the religious commandment to protect children (which is found in the Judeo-Christian moral tradition as well as other religious traditions).

I generally avoid comment whenever people state that they cannot impose their morality upon others. If the person who says such a thing expects a response from me I usually follow up with something like “then I guess that you oppose all taxation because the way all tax money is spent is an imposition of morality upon the individual taxpayer”. That is usually enough for the person to realize the silliness of their position. If a person becomes belligerent in insisting that legislation to restrict abortion is the imposition of a religious morality I will usually respond by bringing to their attention that using my tax dollars to pay for abortion is an imposition upon me of their personal morality.

Admin

Dear Administrator,

Thank you for that excellent (and insightful) response!

I'll use it here - as I agree with it, but haven't yet ever read such a succinct summation of the matter.

I wish you as good a lunch as I"m having right now!

Alex

The writers of "Committed" are at BEST guilty of ignorance of or gross insensitivity to that which Catholics hold as most sacred.

I imagine (and I would only hope) that they understand that they could not write an episode in which one of the characters gets drunk in Jerusalem and ends up urinating on the Western Wall... or mistakenly uses the Gideon's Bible when the hotel toilet paper runs out.

But evidently the writers do not understand or take seriously Catholics' beliefs about Holy Communion. Or do they...?

Anti-Catholicism has always been rampant in this nation. But what bothers me the very most is that many Protestant converts into Orthodoxy carry their anti-Catholic feelings/mentality into the Orthodox Church and the Orthodox priests/bishops know it but not do anything and tolerates anti-Catholic sentiments from the Orthodox Christians.

GRRRR!

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

TG, I must have missed Elvis and his apparent parting with his TV... anyone want to care to enlighten me?

Dear Diak,

I understand that he was "all shook up . . ."

Alex

I can't imagine an Orthodox Christian countenancing something like this unless he is poorly informed about his own faith. While there may be some anti-Catholic sentiment among some Orthodox (converts among them) there is plenty anti-Orthodox sentiment among many BCs.

You always find a way to Orthodox-bash.

Dear Tony,

I apologise for SPDundas!

The only kind of "Orthodox Bash" I'm familiar with is when I invite only my Orthodox friends to my home for ethnic food that reflects their cultural backgrounds!

We recite the original Nicene Creed before eating and towards the end declare a number of anathemas

The only requirement is to wear a three-bar Cross or else a Greek one.

Latin Crosses aren't allowed . . .



Alex

Tony:

While you may have an uncharitable person in the BCC here or there, let's not pretend that the level of invective is anywhere the same.

Please read the last issue of the Orthodox magazine from OCADOW, then show me analogous wise-cracking in a BC diocesan publication.

Show me anything from any present BC Bishop that is in any way comparable to Bishop Tikhon's execrable remarks on the Indiana list today.

djs,

Well, I personally in my time as BC witnessed and heard many unkind remarks about the Orthodox, many from different folks.

I will appreciate it if you send me links for the above either here or privately. I don not keep up with the Indiana list as it is quite an uncharitable place. As far as the magazine OCADOW...I will look for it, if you have a link that would be better. If it is that bad put it here.

T

Is the mag online?

https://listserv.indiana.edu/cgi-bin/wa-iub.exe?A2=ind0503a&L=orthodox&F=&S=&P=1196

Cutting to the chase:

Anything comparable?

Contemporary no, not that I am aware of. However, I don't know of any Ruthenian or other BC hierarchs who post online under their own name.

There was the infamous article "Strangers in our midst" which appeared in the BCW but that was quite a while back. Perhaps you know more about that.

TIKHON is quoting someone else (someone of whom he does not seem to have a high opinion).

He may not think much of the person quoted, but he chooses to use the odious quote.

I am unfamiliar with the article, that you mentioned. I think it proper to restrict attention to the present. I don't doubt that if we go back just a little bit to the era in which Orthodox were actively particpating in the liquidation of our churches abroad, or the era of litigation in our churches here, you will find stronger public words. It would be nice if we could put that behind us. But that "putting" will require reciprocation.

I agree. How then are SPDundas' remarks pertinent? While some Orthodox may use strong language even employing the "U" word, have any laughed at the portrayal of desecration of the Body and Blood of Christ?

They were off topic.

In answer to your second question, let's first determine whether or not Orthodox consider the Eucharist of Catholics to be the Body and Blood of Christ. If they don't, then question is moot.

I think you know such a determination is impossible. Russians would probably says yes while Athonites no. Maybe not.

I was told a story here by a professor who visited a non-functioning Orthodox church in Russia under communism. He was let in by a caretaker and found to his surprise statues from a closed local RC church, they were being kept in the Orthodox church for safe keeping. They were holy things not to be mistreated.

It remains a gross insult to an apostolic church what was portrayed (even though I did not see it). But then again, mockery of such things as confession has been going on in comedy for quite a while on TV, I mean if anyone has seen some of the South Park episodes that made fun of the Catholic Church during a recent crisis, they know, it was very poor.

Tony,

DID I say "ALL" Orthodox are anti-Catholics? I guess you didn't read what I said...

Protestants...who have anti-Catholicism in their bones carry it to the Orthodox Church and the clerics know it and tolerates it. That bothers me.

I know many cradle Orthodox who love the Catholic Church and partake Communion frequently.

Everytime I go over to the Antiochian Orthodox Cathedral here in Wichita, I always get cold shoulders from converts and sometimes I get really cold shoulders from clerics there. Because they know that I'm Catholic.

A close friend of mine in that Church witnessed Bishop Basil kicking a Byzantine Catholic priest OUT of the Church (in a social hall) because he was a friend of an Orthodox priest in that Diocese. Bishop Basil is known to be very anti-Catholic and talking down about us.

I've always respected Bishop Basil and when he finds out that I'm Byzantine Catholic, gives me cold shoulders.

My experience speaks volumes than what I hear from other people, so TONY, you are clueless.

You are pretty rash and rough on me, so lay off. Remember, you are on a CATHOLIC forum here, so I have the right to tell people what I saw about how the Protestant converts bring anti-Catholicism into the Orthodox Church. Sad, but it's true.

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

Dear SPDundas,

What you experienced was horrible AND downright unchristian and sinful!

On behalf of those Orthodox, I apologize.

What you are expressing is indeed a reality within the current Antiochian Orthodox Church IN AMERICA, which has *many* Protestant converts. Unfortunately, the Antiochians that I have also met (that are not born overseas), although praiseworthy in their Orthodox faith, also seem to have the same attitude.

It is so ironic, because the Antiochian Patriarch is one of the most loving, charitable and union desiring Orthodox Patriarchs around.

Therefore, your conculusion about the anti-Catholic sentiment being brought in by converts is right on target. This Antiochian problem is one of my primary concerns AGAINST Orthodox unity in this country. I would not want that spirit of anti-Catholicism, which I consider nothing short of hateful, to spread to my Archdiocese...(we have enough other problems..LOL!)

May I make a suggestion, please? Could you please send exactly your post to someone at the Antiochian Archdiocese. People must speak out and not be intimidated. Prejudice of this sort, among Christian brethren is UNACCEPTABLE! If you don't want to, please p.m. me and tell me if you would allow me to direct your post to some sites where it will be read.

God bless you.

With love in Christ, OUR Lord of peace and love,
Alice

You are rude.

]

Well, I thought that we had already discussed this topic before and came to the understanding that this forum is NOT a Catholic Forum but for all Eastern Christians and those interested in Eastern Christianity. It might have started off as Byzantine Catholic but it has expanded and that is a positive thing.
Like Alice, I'm sorry for the experiences you have had with some Orthodox. I don't like that type of behavior on the part of anyone and especially not Orthodox Christians!!

Brian is correct that this is a forum focusing on Eastern Christianity, and not specifically a Catholic forum.

I do not doubt SPDundas’ experience. He has absolutely no reason to invent such a story.

I have run into a few Protestant converts to Orthodoxy who are nasty towards Catholicism. They exist in all Churches. I have met Orthodox who have transferred to Catholicism who are extremely anti-Orthodox. And Catholic converts to Evangelical Christianity who are extremely anti-Catholic. And Baptist converts to Catholicism who are extremely anti-Baptist. Why don’t we end this by concluding that the particular people that SPDundas met have not exampled the wonderful hospitality that we know exists in most Orthodox parishes?

There is a lesson here. When we fail to show hospitality at all times people form poor opinions about us. And once an opinion is formed it is usually very difficult to change.

I visited the website of the Cathedral in Wichita.

http://www.stgeorgecathedral.net/

According to the description of the clergy on the cathedral website, the dean is an ex-Roman Catholic who felt disaffected by the changes in Roman Catholicism. To my mind, it is one thing to say that he was baptized and raised Roman Catholic and is now Orthodox. It is quite another to cite the sources of his disaffection with the faith of his youth as a precursr to his entry into Orthodoxy. I find it to be a pathetic example of the convert mentality especially rampant among former RC's who are now clergy in the AOC (a few of whom are my friends) - and decidedly unbecoming of a priest of whatever jurisdiction.

SPUNDAS, why go where you are not welcome? Wipe the dust off of your feet and pray in all earnestness for the end of prelest.

Pray for me a sinner,

Gordo

Tony,

The fact you made a defensive remark speaks volumes of the fact you are tolerant of anti-Catholic sentiments among the Orthodox faithful speaks volumes of your attitude. You have not yet acknowledged the fact it's true and didn't even try to have an ecumenical tone.

Administrator,

Yes, you are correct. However, this site was founded in the Byzantine Catholic territory and it would be more appropriate to treat the Byzantines in a warm manner and have respect. All Eastern Christians should be grateful for this helpful and ecumenical forum in purpose to achieve the goal of Christian Unity. I mean, showing respect to the host would be nice.

Alice and Gordor,

The reason I keep going to the Antiochian Churches is because there is this one smaller parish which is filled with my life long close friends. They treat me as one of them except the priest of course. And plus I desire to be there to pray to the same G-d that we share and hope for Christian Charity and Unity. I do not think ill of them (people at the Cathedral), but to be filled with sorrow of the way they treat me. Now, understand this, not all are like that. Most, if not all, cradle Antiochian Orthodox are very nice to me and even desire that I receive Communion there.

There is a community of Maronites here in Wichita that get treated poorly simply because they're Catholic. I mean, come on, the parish have many Lebanese families and the clerics and other should treat them as one of theirs as well.

I simply don't understand why the clerics tolerate this. You are right, the Patriarch is very nice man and desires unity as the Church was also founded by St. Peter.

Gordor, you're right, the dean there is a bitter man. I can even see it in his eyes. But his wife is the sweetest human being there. All I can do is pray that he would no longer be filled with anger. It is true that it's not a good thing for people to become Orthodox with the wrong motivation. People should become Orthodox with a motivation to grow closer to G-d, same for those who want to be Catholic. Of course I'll add that we should have the motivation to at least try to achieve Unity the best we can with the grace of G-d.

But if anyone understands or knows WHY the Antiochians in America are that way while the Mother countries aren't?

Of course the Greek Church here in town treat me so well. I love these Greek folks. They feed me well! Hehe! Everytime I eat their meals, I could swear that I have died and gone to Heaven! aaahhhh wow.

Thanks for listening and for letting me vent out.

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

Brother SPDundas,

I've found stiff necks on both sides of the fence, when I went to confession at the start of Lent & mentioned Byzantine Church, the priest's head spun around and his voice remarkably turned very stern.

It is truly sad to see this happen amongst the brethern.

james

Dundas,

You are a pot calling a kettle black about "attitude" and "ecumenical tone." I am not tolerant of anti-anything that is harmful. I have no doubt you have been mistreated, and that makes me very sad. Many have been mistreated in the name of God or truth and it is usually neither that is really at play. But, life is a trial. Having said that, it doesn't make it right.

I questioned how your post is pertinent to this thread. The Sacred Species (RC) was mocked, this is an affront to all Christians in my opinion. Perhaps others will disagagree, so be it. If you think your being treated poorly is to be equated with this TV episode, well I think you are wrong but of course you will think what you will.

T

This has gotten way off topic from the initial post and is not very kind at all. With the Blood of Jesus shed upon the Cross for us, is this conversation glorying him?

Pani Rose

Dear SPDundas,

On a positive note, I am glad that my fellow Greek Orthodox are treating you well!

We are generally a pretty hospitable bunch! Hospitality is considered a great virtue in the Greek culture. (philoxenia and philotimo: love of the stranger, and love of honoring the other)

I am also happy that we are feeding you well!!!

God bless,
In Christ,
Alice

Pani -

Your point is well made. I wasn't following the origin of this thread, so I apologize for contributing to the off-topic track.

In the interest of fair and balanced reporting on my part, I have experienced nothing but CHRISTIAN HOSPITALITY in all of my interactions with the AOC, OCA (Rusyn and Romanian), ROCOR and GOA. Even my friends who were RC's and who became AOC priests were very kind to me during my visits with them. (With one, he shared with me that heaven was closed to me if I did not become a card carrying member of the Orthodox Church.) To me, such a fact is the strongest witness to the truth of Orthodoxy, as it should be also to the truth of Catholicism.

I remember a great quote from one of my favorite modern writers, + Henri DeLubac, that he desired to learn and deepen his faith as it was positively expressed, instead of learning his faith in opposition to other faiths (paraphrased, of course).

Anti-Catholicsm should have no place within Orthodoxy, nor should anti-Orthodoxy have a place within Catholicism (Eastern or Western), especially among the clergy, IMHO.

Pray for me a sinner,

Gordo

God spare us from such "witnesses" to the Orthodox Faith. There are MANY better examples to Orthodoxy then telling other Christians they cannot enter heaven if they are not Orthodox!!!
I remember one of the great examples of Orthodoxy to me was a 78 yr old babushka at an OCA parish in San Diego who when introduced to me said with a loving smile "ah, you are Catholic!! So close, so close!!!" She NEVER said anything like "let me bring you out of error" as some Orthodox converts can do but showed me by her example what it meant to be an Orthodox Christian. Seeing this frail lady prostrate herself during the Holy Services of Great and Holy Week drew me closer to Orthodoxy then any priest ranting at me that I was not "saved" if I did not become Orthodox.
Coming to Orthodoxy is not about such polemics!!!!

Dear brother in Christ, Brian,

Thank you for sharing that lovely post.
Indeed, that babushka is witness to what Orthodoxy is and should be about: love.

God bless you.

In Christ,
Alice

Brian,

Thank you for your post. I think I created some confusion by placing my statement in parentheses so close to my sentence on witness. The "witness" to which I was referring was the witness of Christian Hospitality - NOT the witness of my friend who told me I couldn't be saved!

My apologies for the confusion...and I agree with your post.

Gordo

Dear Gordo,

I recall how often I mentioned something like this on an Orthodox forum. It was this opposition to the Latin Church that made Protestantism what it is today. Luther believed in the sacraments, and the saints. It was only after 100 years or so, that everything was thrown out because they were part of the Roman Church.

Too many times I have heard in the past years, certain 'Protestantisms', especially by priests in the Greek Orthodox Church. But they stopped. I can't help but feel it was my postings of the writings of Saint Gregory Palamas.

Oh, thank heavens for him and the writer and the translator of the book Saint Gregory Palamas as a Hagiorite. Of course that was not the writers intent, because he alludes to our differences with the RCC many times, even to the point of relating the Latins as being one and the same as the heresy of Barlaam that Saint Gregory was fighting..But the exact translations of our dear Saint Gregory Palamas, show differently. It seems the author did not realize how Protestanized our theology had become, (because of our opposition to the Latin Church), and what a benefit he was doing...Yet he himself was giving opinions that were in opposition to the Latin Church.

God works in mysterious ways.

Taking all the above into account, it would not have been too long before we would have thrown out everything, including the sacraments and our devotion to the Virgin Mary.

Zenovia

Dear Alice,

It is not only the converts. I can't help but feel it is the sentiments of some self-serving married priests, that want to become bishops... not to mention the 'triumphalism' that seems to be part of our sinful human nature. But then I am suspicious by nature, (or maybe by exprience).

Most Greeks though, those that are devout and neither political nor fundamentalists, do want union with the RCC. Unfortunatly, their voice is rarely heard above the loud 'clang' of the others.

Zenovia

Gordo,

I am so sorry for "flying off the handle like that" I can't wait until Great Lent starts and a break from the forums!!!

Peace,
Brian

No worries, mate. I'm sorry my posting wasn't clear.

See? Lent has already begun!

Pray for me a sinner -

Gordo

Alice,
I like the Greeks, off all the Orthodox I think they are the least hostile.
The local Greek parish was thrilled and overjoyed at my visit when I first arrived in this city.
Stephanos I

I like the Greeks, too. When we were first having Byzantine Catholic Divine Liturgies some years ago, the local Greek Orthodox Church provided us with vestments. The Greeks are comfortable and secure in their Orthodoxy, so they don't feel threatened. They are great people and I love them.