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Archbishop Demetrius gives award to the Secretary of State #323059 05/25/09 11:11 PM
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JSMelkiteOrthodoxy Offline OP
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http://www.goarch.org/news/awardtoclinton-2009-05-23

Archbishop Demetrios Presents Award to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton


Re: Archbishop Demetrius gives award to the Secretary of State [Re: JSMelkiteOrthodoxy] #323078 05/26/09 02:09 AM
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Pani Rose Offline
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HUMMMM!

Re: Archbishop Demetrius gives award to the Secretary of State [Re: Pani Rose] #323088 05/26/09 03:49 AM
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As an outsider, I am wondering:

Why is Hellenism given significance in the GOA? Sometimes it seems that the two are inseparable, is that because of historical reasons? (for example, the Greek bishop perhaps represented the Greeks under a Saracen sultanate??) or some other reason?

Re: Archbishop Demetrius gives award to the Secretary of State [Re: Michael_Thoma] #323113 05/26/09 02:19 PM
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Alice Offline
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Originally Posted by Michael_Thoma
As an outsider, I am wondering:

Why is Hellenism given significance in the GOA? Sometimes it seems that the two are inseparable, is that because of historical reasons? (for example, the Greek bishop perhaps represented the Greeks under a Saracen sultanate??) or some other reason?


I know, it is wierd...I guess that so much is wrapped up together..for instance the reopening of Halki School of Theology and the plight of the Ecumenical Patriarch.

On the other hand, the FRYOM (Macedonia's name) controversy and Cyprus problem should have nothing to do with our Church..

Truth be told, we(the Greek American church communities) do still act as if we are under the Sultanate. Our hierarchs and clerics do still serve as 'ethnarchs' of the old Ottoman Empire. It is embarrassing, confusing, and can also sometimes, in some cases, be seen as compromising of Orthodox Christian values.

We should probably shed this. We have secular groups and we also enough political, financial and professional clout as Greek Americans to be able to lobby for Greek related causes without sending our Archbishop as an Ambassador of Greek America to Washington!

Alice

*(Ethnarch (from Greek: Εθνάρχης) refers generally to political leadership over a common ethnic group or heterogeneous kingdom.

Ottoman Empire

Rather different was the case of minority community ethnarchs, especially within the Islamic Ottoman Empire (political successor to Byzantium) that were recognized as legitimate entities (millet) and thus allowed to be heard by the government through an officially acknowledged representative, though without political persona.

When the Ottoman Sultan Mehmet II decided to give such dialogue a more formal nature, the logical choice for the major Christian communities was the (Greek Orthodox) Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople..)






*www.wikipedia.com


Re: Archbishop Demetrius gives award to the Secretary of State [Re: Alice] #323118 05/26/09 02:48 PM
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Does anyone else think that those who represent the Church should refrain from rewarding worldly leaders in any form? There was a big stink about Notre Dame giving an honorary doctorate to President Obama, but I couldn't work up much outrage, as it is par for the course for Catholic and other Christian organizations to give awards to worldlings who really deserve correction. And I couldn't help but think that so many of the protesters would not have objected if ND had given an award to ex-President Bush, the torture and preemptive war president, just as they said nothing when prochoice and protorture Condaleeza Rice got her honorary degree from Boston College, also a Jesuit institution. Enough; it is not the Church's role to offer awards to this world's leaders, most of whom deserve prophetic commentary instead.

Re: Archbishop Demetrius gives award to the Secretary of State [Re: iconophile] #323124 05/26/09 03:54 PM
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Terry Bohannon Offline
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"Does anyone else think that those who represent the Church should refrain from rewarding worldly leaders in any form?"

Those who represent the Church officially or indirectly need to be aware of the pastoral consequences of their actions.

Hilliary Clinton, as a person, has nothing to do with the honor given her but for the fact that she is the diplomatic face of the United States. If Archbishop Demetrius wanted to give an honor to the United States, who else but the Secretary of State would he give the honor to? He could have given it to an aide, he could have mailed it, but it's a normal duty of Clinton's office that she is to handle these affairs.


Re: Archbishop Demetrius gives award to the Secretary of State [Re: Terry Bohannon] #323130 05/26/09 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Terry Bohannon
"Does anyone else think that those who represent the Church should refrain from rewarding worldly leaders in any form?"

Those who represent the Church officially or indirectly need to be aware of the pastoral consequences of their actions.

Hilliary Clinton, as a person, has nothing to do with the honor given her but for the fact that she is the diplomatic face of the United States. If Archbishop Demetrius wanted to give an honor to the United States, who else but the Secretary of State would he give the honor to? He could have given it to an aide, he could have mailed it, but it's a normal duty of Clinton's office that she is to handle these affairs.



Yes, it does bother me and seems like a political gesture more than anything else. Surely this gives reason to pray for those in authority to exercise wisdom in these matters. I am with Pani Rose here by .....

stating...HMMMMMMM. confused

Re: Archbishop Demetrius gives award to the Secretary of State [Re: iconophile] #323131 05/26/09 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by iconophile
[...] And I couldn't help but think that so many of the protesters would not have objected if ND had given an award to ex-President Bush, the torture and preemptive war president, just as they said nothing when prochoice and protorture Condaleeza Rice got her honorary degree from Boston College, also a Jesuit institution. [...]

Pres. George W. Bush did get an honorary degree from Notre Dame when he gave the commencement address on May 20, 2001 (Text of Bush's Notre Dame speech).

But that was before he became, as you call him, "the torture and preemptive war president."

Re: Archbishop Demetrius gives award to the Secretary of State [Re: Latin Catholic] #323132 05/26/09 04:49 PM
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You mean when he was only the death penalty governor? I rest my case...

Re: Archbishop Demetrius gives award to the Secretary of State [Re: iconophile] #323134 05/26/09 04:58 PM
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Your case is weak. Abortion and the death penalty are two very separate issues.

Re: Archbishop Demetrius gives award to the Secretary of State [Re: Terry Bohannon] #323135 05/26/09 05:08 PM
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But tortue is not- it too, is an intrinsic evil, like abortion, that can never be justified. Of course, at the time, Notre Dame did not know about his policy.



Re: Archbishop Demetrius gives award to the Secretary of State [Re: lanceg] #323136 05/26/09 05:13 PM
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The death penalty is an intrinsic evil. There is nothing "pro-life" about killing someone. Period.

Re: Archbishop Demetrius gives award to the Secretary of State [Re: DAVIDinVA] #323137 05/26/09 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by DAVIDinVA
The death penalty is an intrinsic evil.


Wrong. The Death Penalty can be applied morally if a society is unable to protect itself from someone even if they are incarcerated.

Abortion can never, never, never be morally justified. It is an intrinsic evil. The two are not moral equivalents.

Re: Archbishop Demetrius gives award to the Secretary of State [Re: lanceg] #323138 05/26/09 05:19 PM
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If you want to say that torture is an intrinsic evil, then you better clarify what torture is.

After having seen pictures of the Iraqi torture chambers and hearing from a survivor who had his hand cut off after being tortured for a while, I have a hard time seeing how water boarding could be compared to the tortures that Saddam insisted upon. To even call it torture is an insult to those who survive the wrath of brutal regimes.

Last edited by Terry Bohannon; 05/26/09 05:21 PM.
Re: Archbishop Demetrius gives award to the Secretary of State [Re: Terry Bohannon] #323139 05/26/09 05:20 PM
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I do not equate them. My point is only that few if any politicians, whether of the Right or Left, deserve any awards from the Church, or from institutions representing it.

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