The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
JStadnik, Tkoty, RomanovvII, squirrelpoose, AgathonTohen
5617 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 83 guests, and 75 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Byzantine Nebraska
Church of the Holy Trinity (UGCC) - Brazil
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
Upgraded Russian icon corner
Russian Greek Catholic Global Congress
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics34,789
Posts412,223
Members5,617
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Archbishop Demetrius gives award to the Secretary of State [Re: iconophile] #323140 05/26/09 05:24 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,214
Terry Bohannon Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,214
All fall short of the glory of God. But I do not believe that the Archbishop was honoring Hillary, but honoring a policy of the United States.

Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

Re: Archbishop Demetrius gives award to the Secretary of State [Re: ebed melech] #323142 05/26/09 05:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 482
DAVIDinVA Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 482
Originally Posted by ebed melech
Originally Posted by DAVIDinVA
The death penalty is an intrinsic evil.


Wrong. The Death Penalty can be applied morally if a society is unable to protect itself from someone even if they are incarcerated.

Abortion can never, never, never be morally justified. It is an intrinsic evil. The two are not moral equivalents.


In this day and age society is able to protect itself from offenders. Even JPII said the death penalty was no longer needed.

Re: Archbishop Demetrius gives award to the Secretary of State [Re: DAVIDinVA] #323143 05/26/09 05:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,398
J
JSMelkiteOrthodoxy Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,398
Originally Posted by DAVIDinVA
The death penalty is an intrinsic evil. There is nothing "pro-life" about killing someone. Period.


My friend, what is written in the Torah?

Re: Archbishop Demetrius gives award to the Secretary of State [Re: iconophile] #323144 05/26/09 05:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,914
Alice Offline
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,914
If everyone would reread my post, you would realize that as acting 'ethnarch' (for lack of a better word), Archbishop Demetrios gave this award to Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton.

If you would reread my post (in response to Michael Thomas' question), you would also realize that there is a strange and anomalous thing going on in the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, where the Archbishop has something of a dual role--a religious one and a secular one (a carryover from Ottoman days a century ago)...

It is wierd, I admit, but atleast let's put this subject into that perspective.

This thread has gone off topic!

*For those who still harbor anger and possibly hatred in their hearts towards our former President, how about letting it go? If you cannot, please start a new thread.

*For those who harbor anger and possibly hatred in their hearts towards our present President, I also suggest letting it go and also starting a new thread or adding to a thread which already exists about him.

There is a fine line between objective, constructive political debate and passion.

Alice, Moderator

For those who did not read my post on page 1, this is what an ethnarch is, and though we don't call him that, Arch. Demetrios, is in essence, just that:

*(Ethnarch (from Greek: Εθνάρχης) refers generally to political leadership over a common ethnic group or heterogeneous kingdom.

Ottoman Empire

Rather different was the case of minority community ethnarchs, especially within the Islamic Ottoman Empire (political successor to Byzantium) that were recognized as legitimate entities (millet) and thus allowed to be heard by the government through an officially acknowledged representative, though without political persona.

When the Ottoman Sultan Mehmet II decided to give such dialogue a more formal nature, the logical choice for the major Christian communities was the (Greek Orthodox) Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople..)







Re: Archbishop Demetrius gives award to the Secretary of State [Re: Terry Bohannon] #323145 05/26/09 05:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 773
lanceg Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 773
Terry, it is against the law, and we prosecuted Japanese war criminals for using waterboarding as a form of torture. Former Presidential candidate John McCain said it was torture. Just because there are other worse forms of torture that leave more permament bodily damage does not mean that waterboarding is not torture.


Re: Archbishop Demetrius gives award to the Secretary of State [Re: lanceg] #323146 05/26/09 05:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,914
Alice Offline
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,914
Dear Lance,

I just gave a warning to continue this in another thread!

This thread is going to be locked because it has gone off topic. Please feel free to discuss these issues into new threads.

Alice, Moderator

Re: Archbishop Demetrius gives award to the Secretary of State [Re: DAVIDinVA] #323169 05/26/09 08:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,513
Administrator Offline
John
Member
Offline
John
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,513
Originally Posted by DAVIDinVA
Originally Posted by ebed melech
Originally Posted by DAVIDinVA
The death penalty is an intrinsic evil.

Wrong. The Death Penalty can be applied morally if a society is unable to protect itself from someone even if they are incarcerated.

Abortion can never, never, never be morally justified. It is an intrinsic evil. The two are not moral equivalents.

In this day and age society is able to protect itself from offenders. Even JPII said the death penalty was no longer needed.

The deacon is correct. The Church does not teach that the death penalty is an intrinsic evil. One may support the use of the death penalty in appropriate circumstances and remain a good Catholic. One may not support abortion or the taking of innocent life (from conception to natural death) and remain a Catholic in good standing.

As to JPII's teaching on the death penalty, it is nuanced. He did not in any way teach that the death penalty was an intrinsic evil. His appeal was, rather, to mercy.

Re: Archbishop Demetrius gives award to the Secretary of State [Re: lanceg] #323170 05/26/09 08:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,513
Administrator Offline
John
Member
Offline
John
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,513
Originally Posted by lanceg
Terry, it is against the law, and we prosecuted Japanese war criminals for using waterboarding as a form of torture. Former Presidential candidate John McCain said it was torture. Just because there are other worse forms of torture that leave more permament bodily damage does not mean that waterboarding is not torture.

One here must first define what torture is. Waterboarding, for example, can be torture and it can be merely uncomfortable. Some in the current debate like to compare the waterboarding used by the CIA to that used by the Japanese in WWII. But such a comparison is ludicrous as the techniques are hugely different, rendering such a comparison irresponsible (like comparing apples and oranges). Until there is a common definition of what constitutes torture there will not be an agreement on what techniques can legitimately be considered torture. The discussion needs to be rooted in fact and not emotion.

Page 2 of 2 1 2

The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2020 (Forum 1998-2020). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3