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#321874 - 05/12/09 01:39 AM
Re: Re: Pope Benedict XVI to lead Vespers in Melkite church in Holy L
[Re: Logos - Alexis]
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Global Moderator
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Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 8894
Loc: Massachusetts
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I always feel bad about interrupting threads to do this, but I'm always so pleased to see a post by one of our long-absent brothers (and our sisters, too, but they seem to go walkabout less frequently)!
Welcome home, Jose, good to see you here!
Many years,
Neil
_________________________
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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#321877 - 05/12/09 02:41 AM
Re: Re: Pope Benedict XVI to lead Vespers in Melkite church in Holy L
[Re: Logos - Alexis]
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Member
Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 5599
Loc: Dublin
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Pope Benedict, aka Joseph Ratzinger, is an outstanding expert in matters liturgical (read his wonderful book The Spirit of the Liturgy for a sample), so it would not really have been a terrible burden to have prepared himself for Great Vespers.
Since Patriarch Gregory III is, among other things, the Greek-Catholic Patriarch of Jerusalem, it is normal that he would be there and would greet Pope Benedict.
Fr. Serge
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#321901 - 05/12/09 10:55 AM
Re: Re: Pope Benedict XVI to lead Vespers in Melkite church in Holy L
[Re: defreitas]
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Member
Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 5599
Loc: Dublin
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I'm unlikely to be in Canada any time soon - arthritis makes such a trip difficult. So please come visit Dublin! You're always welcome (almost always - avoid Dublin like the plague on 17 March), but I should mention that the next Eucharistic Congress is to take place here in 2012, so you might like to plan to come for it.
Fr. Serge
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#321982 - 05/13/09 08:18 AM
Re: Re: Pope Benedict XVI to lead Vespers in Melkite church in Holy L
[Re: Fr Serge Keleher]
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Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 1456
Loc: Norway
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#322000 - 05/13/09 03:44 PM
Re: Re: Pope Benedict XVI to lead Vespers in Melkite church in Holy L
[Re: Latin Catholic]
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Member
Registered: 07/20/02
Posts: 687
Loc: Fraserview
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Dear Latin:
Thanks so much!
Was that ever cool to watch.
I notice that the Zhezl Cloth had the Papal Coat of Arms on it.
What is that Cloth on the Zhezl properly called?
And why is it there? What does it do or symbolize?
Christ is Risen!
Herb
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#322004 - 05/13/09 04:51 PM
Re: Re: Pope Benedict XVI to lead Vespers in Melkite church in Holy L
[Re: Herbigny]
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Member
Registered: 05/14/06
Posts: 804
Loc: Rio de Janeiro/ RJ - Brazil
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Dear Latin:
Thanks so much!
Was that ever cool to watch.
I notice that the Zhezl Cloth had the Papal Coat of Arms on it.
What is that Cloth on the Zhezl properly called?
And why is it there? What does it do or symbolize?
Christ is Risen!
Herb Dear Herb, I think you wrote without willing, but it was the Patriarchal Coat of Arms in the episcopal staff, not Papal.
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#322014 - 05/13/09 07:06 PM
Re: Re: Pope Benedict XVI to lead Vespers in Melkite church in Holy L
[Re: Philippe Gebara]
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Member
Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 5599
Loc: Dublin
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1. The cloth on the pastoral staff has (originally) a quite practical reason - it protects the pastoral staff from perspiration, especially in hot climates. While one still sees quite simple cloths, they have also become stylized over the centuries and are often made to match the vestments.
2. It is normal for the priest or bishop (but not, of course, the deacon) to bless the assembly with the Gospel Book. However, in the Roman tradition, this is reserved to the Pope.
Fr. Serge
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#322024 - 05/13/09 08:42 PM
Re: Re: Pope Benedict XVI to lead Vespers in Melkite church in Holy L
[Re: Philippe Gebara]
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Member
Registered: 01/27/02
Posts: 1933
Loc: Sharon/Hermitage, PA
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I know priests and bishops bless the assembly with the Gospel after reading it. But do bishops do that after receiving the Book after the procession?! The short answer is no. Another thing: usually, the Gospel is only carried in the Vespers procession if a reading from the Gospels is appointed. In the case of this Papal Vespers, there was no reading from the Gospel, only from the Epistle to the Ephesians. So, having the Gospel in the Vespers Procession was a bit anomalous. Dave
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#322038 - 05/13/09 11:44 PM
Re: Re: Pope Benedict XVI to lead Vespers in Melkite church in Holy L
[Re: Chtec]
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Member
Registered: 05/14/06
Posts: 804
Loc: Rio de Janeiro/ RJ - Brazil
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I know priests and bishops bless the assembly with the Gospel after reading it. But do bishops do that after receiving the Book after the procession?! The short answer is no. Thanks, Dave! I guessed bishops won`t do the blessing with Gospel, even because the deacon or priest who carries it to him is supposed to do that just before. But did the carrier of the Gospel in the Melkite celebration did the blessing indeed? I didn`t see it, and I think they were recording another image of the Church at the moment.
Another thing: usually, the Gospel is only carried in the Vespers procession if a reading from the Gospels is appointed. In the case of this Papal Vespers, there was no reading from the Gospel, only from the Epistle to the Ephesians. So, having the Gospel in the Vespers Procession was a bit anomalous.
I found that strange! By the way, as people has already commented here, the Pope standed up to the reading of the Epistle, probably, I guess, thinking it was of the Gospel, as the Holy Book was carried in the procession just before.
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#322039 - 05/14/09 02:16 AM
Re: Re: Pope Benedict XVI to lead Vespers in Melkite church in Holy L
[Re: Chtec]
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Member
Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 5599
Loc: Dublin
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In the slightly unusual event that a hierarch is "pontificating" Vespers, one properly carries the Gospel Book even if there is no Gospel lesson, because at the Entrance the Bishop will take the dikerotrikera and bow low - and it would be rather more than odd to bow low before the thurible! Alas, one often sees this done incorrectly.
Fr. Serge
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#322053 - 05/14/09 08:45 AM
Re: Re: Pope Benedict XVI to lead Vespers in Melkite church in Holy L
[Re: Fr Serge Keleher]
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Member
Registered: 07/20/02
Posts: 687
Loc: Fraserview
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re the "cloth" thing on the zhezl, Thank you Father Serge for explaining, always wondered about that.
Yes, but even with all the little liturgical glitches (like where were the deacons {not to mention Archdeacons and Protodeacons (gotta have deacons!)), it still seems like a wonderful celebration, the singing was beautiful and full-hearted. And the Pope seemed genuinely thrilled and inspired.
I thought His Beatitude Gregorios III (Pontiff of Pontiffs and 13th Apostle) spoke exceedingly well.
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