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Re: A Baptist Minister's First Experience of a Byzantine Liturgy [Re: Irish Melkite] #324221
06/06/09 10:26 AM
06/06/09 10:26 AM
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Brooklyn, NY
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Edmac Offline
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The place is an OCA parish in San Antonio, TX, housed in what
was formerly a Dutch Reformed church. The iconostasis is brand
new. The website has pictures of it being installed.

http://orthodoxsanantonio.org

This is indeed a remarkable article for a Baptist minister to
post considering how alien the Liturgy is to one of his
background. Clearly the Holy Spirit was at work here.

Edmac








Re: A Baptist Minister's First Experience of a Byzantine Liturgy [Re: Edmac] #324224
06/06/09 10:57 AM
06/06/09 10:57 AM
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somewhere betwixt the Alpha an...
ebed melech Offline OP
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somewhere betwixt the Alpha an...
When I visited a Russian Orthodox parish in Dublin last year, the antidoron was distributed at the time of communion along with wine and warm water, I believe.

Regarding the Church, what an incredibly beautiful church! I was especially pleased to see their use of Minor Orders, which seems to be so neglected among we Greek Catholics. God grant them many happy and blessed years!

Re: A Baptist Minister's First Experience of a Byzantine Liturgy [Re: ebed melech] #324231
06/06/09 12:42 PM
06/06/09 12:42 PM
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Falls Church, VA
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StuartK Offline
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"I was especially pleased to see their use of Minor Orders, which seems to be so neglected among we Greek Catholics. "

I don't know about other Churches, but the Melkites make good use of subdeacons and readers. Holy Transfiguration in Vienna has several of each (as well as three deacons). Would that the Ruthenians followed suit--there are many estimable candidates who have no desire to go further up the cursus honorum.

Re: A Baptist Minister's First Experience of a Byzantine Liturgy [Re: StuartK] #324234
06/06/09 01:56 PM
06/06/09 01:56 PM
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Massachusetts
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Irish Melkite Offline
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A beautiful temple. Thanks, Ed, for taking the time to look up the website. I had intended to do that the other night but got caught up in something else and forgot to do so.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
Re: A Baptist Minister's First Experience of a Byzantine Liturgy [Re: Irish Melkite] #324270
06/08/09 01:02 AM
06/08/09 01:02 AM
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Pittsburgh, PA
Erie Byz Offline
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Today, at Fr. Daniel Forsythe's ordination, Fr. Jim Hess distributed blessed bread to Fr. Daniel's family because most are Evangelical Christians while the rest of us received the Precious Body and Blood.

Re: A Baptist Minister's First Experience of a Byzantine Liturgy [Re: Irish Melkite] #324274
06/08/09 03:13 AM
06/08/09 03:13 AM
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Las Vegas
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Originally Posted by Irish Melkite

I'm inclined to agree with you. I am a bit puzzled by the timing of distribution of the antidoran.


Variance in Eastern practice aside, giving the overwhelming nature of the experience, a minor confusion about order of events wouldn't seem surprising.

hawk

Re: A Baptist Minister's First Experience of a Byzantine Liturgy [Re: Irish Melkite] #324285
06/08/09 06:41 AM
06/08/09 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Irish Melkite

I'm inclined to agree with you. I am a bit puzzled by the timing of distribution of the antidoran.

When distributed at the conclusion of Liturgy (the usual timing in my experience, at both EC and EO churches) it is sometimes (commonly, when it has been observed that there are visitors) preceded by a brief comment by the priest, explaining and welcoming all to come and take a piece.

Perhaps someone can enlighten as to the timing and manner of distribution described here. Are there particular jurisdictions in which this is typical?
Neil


Neil-
I visited a Greek Orthodox parish last winter in No. California semi rural that was a pretty good size church and full for Divine Liturgy. The woman who had been next to me during Liturgy gave me antidoran, with no explanation, when she came back from communion. I thought it was meant as a friendly gesture when she realized I hadn't gone up for communion. I imagine it was clear I was familiar with the Liturgy so maybe she surmised I would know what it was.

The other places I've gone I don't remember anyone bringing me antidoran at the communion time, as opposed to someone wandering around with it in a basket or bowl etc. at the close of Liturgy. I've never heard an explanation, but again, if they could tell I was familiar with the Liturgy they maybe wouldn't have made any explanation.

-Marylouise

Re: A Baptist Minister's First Experience of a Byzantine Liturgy [Re: dochawk] #324288
06/08/09 08:58 AM
06/08/09 08:58 AM
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Hesychios Offline
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As I recall from the BCC, we occasionally had antidoran at the end of liturgy. Father would bless us at the ambo and the altar servers would be there with a bowl full.

In the Orthodox parishes I have attended the antidoran was immediately available (with wine)as each communicant would walk to the back of the nave. The purpose is to assist the Sacred Species down like a rinse. A quite refreshing pleasure and an enjoyable little communal mob scene. grin It is this blessed bread that we will usually bring to those we notice are not able to commune.

Re: A Baptist Minister's First Experience of a Byzantine Liturgy [Re: Hesychios] #324289
06/08/09 09:36 AM
06/08/09 09:36 AM
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I have also experienced this in an Orthodox Church - but also we were given blessed bread when we went to kiss the Cross and the Priest's hand at the end of Liturgy.

Re: A Baptist Minister's First Experience of a Byzantine Liturgy [Re: Our Lady's slave] #324292
06/08/09 09:52 AM
06/08/09 09:52 AM
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The Russian Catholic Centre in Melbourne has the blessed bread and the warm wine for straight after communion and blessed bread at the end of the Liturgy when people come forward to kiss the cross.

Re: A Baptist Minister's First Experience of a Byzantine Liturgy [Re: Pavel Ivanovich] #324294
06/08/09 10:35 AM
06/08/09 10:35 AM
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"The Russian Catholic Centre in Melbourne has the blessed bread and the warm wine for straight after communion and blessed bread at the end of the Liturgy when people come forward to kiss the cross."

This is apparently a very old Russian usage. When I was at St. Alexander Nevsky Cathedral in Paris, the antedoron and wine were brought out immediately after communion. Apparently, it is to allow those who have received to break their fast and wash out their mouths, lest they accidentally profane the sacrament by coughing or sneezing. After Liturgy, more antedoron was brought forth for those who did not receive.

Re: A Baptist Minister's First Experience of a Byzantine Liturgy [Re: StuartK] #324311
06/08/09 03:26 PM
06/08/09 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by StuartK
"The Russian Catholic Centre in Melbourne has the blessed bread and the warm wine for straight after communion and blessed bread at the end of the Liturgy when people come forward to kiss the cross."

This is apparently a very old Russian usage. When I was at St. Alexander Nevsky Cathedral in Paris, the antedoron and wine were brought out immediately after communion. Apparently, it is to allow those who have received to break their fast and wash out their mouths, lest they accidentally profane the sacrament by coughing or sneezing. After Liturgy, more antedoron was brought forth for those who did not receive.


I saw that once on a youtube video. After receiving communion, each person picked up a little plastic cup on a small table and drank it. I always meant to ask about it here, but never got around to it.

Elizabeth

Re: A Baptist Minister's First Experience of a Byzantine Liturgy [Re: babochka] #324313
06/08/09 03:43 PM
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Plastic seems tacky. In Parish, the wine and bread were placed on a small table in the nave. An acolyte with a carafe poured the wine into a small chalice, which was refilled after each person drank. The bread was placed on a small silver plate, and each person helped himself.

Re: A Baptist Minister's First Experience of a Byzantine Liturgy [Re: Hesychios] #324328
06/08/09 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Hesychios

In the Orthodox parishes I have attended the antidoran was immediately available (with wine)as each communicant would walk to the back of the nave.


Originally Posted by Our Lady's slave
... also we were given blessed bread when we went to kiss the Cross and the Priest's hand at the end of Liturgy.


I had assumed this was standard because of my limited experience. It's been the case for any Orthodox Liturgy I have gone to, but that is very limited- to the US, and not many different parishes. It is also what we have at the Byzantine parish I attend. The deacon or an alter server brings the antidoran and wine out to the side table prior to communion. After receiving Eucharist, if one does go up to receive, you walk past and take some. That was what the woman brought to me when she returned from receiving her Eucharist and I had not gone up to receive. I do go up to kiss the hand Cross and the priest's hand whether in Orthodox or Byzantine and I then take antidoran from the table. After everyone is done with kissing the hand Cross I also have seen people walk around with the basket or bowl etc. of left over antidoran to continue passing around.

Re: A Baptist Minister's First Experience of a Byzantine Liturgy [Re: likethethief] #324331
06/08/09 06:33 PM
06/08/09 06:33 PM
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Washington, PA
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I think some are confusing Zapivka: bread and wine used to wash down the Holy Gifts immediately after communing; and Antidoron: blessed bread left over from the Proskomedia given out after the Ambon Prayer.

Strict Orthodox traditionalists would say only Orthodox can be given the Antidoron.


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