In another thread here , Hawk mentioned something near and dear to my heart, "baby breaks" during the Divine Liturgy. As the mother of 4 children under 7, "baby breaks" are a frequent necessity of life. My older children are generally well behaved (but not always), and the baby is thankfully quiet so far, but the 2 year old is a little chatterbox and occasional tantrum thrower. The 5 year old frequently needs to go to the bathroom. A diaper needs to be changed in the middle of liturgy. Hopefully, you begin to get the picture. On a typical Sunday, I can be in and out of the church several times. I often walk in the back with the 2 year old, kissing icons and discussing the liturgy. Sometimes, if the tantrum is particularly bad, we go outside altogether so that I can treat the neighborhood to the screaming and spare my fellow parishioners. I don't want to be disruptive to the Liturgy, but the alternative to going in and out several times is to not bring the children to church at all, which is not an option. In the Latin parish that we attend sometimes, I feel like I'm less of a disruption because there are many young families and the church is much larger. In my parish, however, we are the only family with young children. (That situation will change soon, as our soon-to-arrive new priest has 3 young children.) Most of the parishioners are elderly and have, I'm convinced, forgotten what it was like to deal with several little ones.

I'd like to hear from anybody who has an opinion on this topic. If you're a parent, how do you handle it? If you're an elderly parishioner, do you look with disdain on the mother who can't stop her 2 year old from talking and her baby from crying (or just pooping)? If you're a priest, how distracting is it to you if people leave and re-enter during the liturgy (at appropriate times, of course).

Thanks,

Elizabeth

Come and go as you need. This is what people do and have always done.

You children are as much a part of the Body of Christ as anyone else there. Liturgy is a communal event with the whole community. While I understand your concern and share it with my own children, crying children are part of life, life that is being transfigured. Why not just ask your priest for guidance & if it is distracting?

Some years ago I heard the Russian Orthodox Dean (ROCOR) explaining that it was perfectly Ok if one felt the need to go out for the Church and stretch the legs and then come back in again. Father's rational was that we were in our Father house and that was OK (not Ok to go out for a smoke or just to chat). It was understood that small children had needs and that they had bad hair days and there were occasions when the the best thing was to take the child out and distract them and let them calm down. When they were settled then to come back in to the church. No big deal as far as he was concerned. Parents gradually taught the children in his church to stay by their parents feet (No seats). It is a problem were the congregation has aged and lost the connection with the small children and some can be a real pain to parents who could do with some support instead of criticism. Brazen it out I say. It will soon be history for you. However do take the children out if you can and sort them out and then come back in.

A dear priest once said at the Divine Liturgy, 'when we no longer have children crying in Church, and mothers tending to them, the parish is dying'.

They are God's gift to us as familly, and to our parish, which is also our family. My husband always said God is giving us what we need at the Divine Liturgy, because we are giving the little ones what they need at the Divine Liturgy. God provides, the whole Church is gaining grace becuase they are there. My 'impatient self' didn't understand back then - our youngest is 24 - but, as I sit with my daughter in law with a 9 month and 3 year old, I say 'it is OK, God is giving you what you need'.

Be at peace!

Actually, my reference was to the "jail break" situation with a baby, where it manages to crawl out of reach :), but these are important too.

Take care of the children. You're not dodging anything by taking care of them.

There does seem to be a much higher tolerance in eastern churches for the inevitable noises children make (and at the other extreme, I recall being at a Roman parish in San Diego area several years ago in which a parent let a child just screach and screach. The poor flustered priest actually lost his place during the Consecration!)

Hmm, and I recall a time about ten years ago when I actually had to drive home during Mass for a clean diaper

hawk

Get rid of the pews, of course, and going out with the baby is not much of a distraction. And babies appreciate the ability to crawl around on the floor.

I love it! Of course, that might help with the baby, but the toddler is really the problem.

A few months ago, before the baby was crawling, I would just spread a blanket out on the floor and let her see the world from that perspective.

On the lack of pews... when I was a child, my parish had pews, but they took them out of the church from Easter to Pentecost. When I returned to visit as an adult, I made sure that I waited until *after* Pentecost to return!

Sorry to misunderstand your comment, but it has sparked a good conversation nonetheless.

We used to have an elderly priest at our Latin parish who lost his place regularly in the year or so prior to his retirement. He did ok with the noise during a Sunday Mass, but if we brought the kids during the week, we had to take them out at the slightest peep.

Elizabeth

I've asked both the priest and cantor what they think, and they both think I should keep the crying kids where they are, save for the loud, ongoing tantrums. I'm more worried about everyone else, like the woman who nicely told me after a particularly trying Liturgy one day that when her 6 children were young, they stood perfectly all in a line and if they squirmed, she flicked them on the head and they straightened right up. Really? Even when they were toddlers? I have truly become convinced that once you reach a certain stage in life you truly get rose colored glasses. My mom is also convinced that we (my siblings and I) were nearly perfectly behaved most of the time. I was there!!! I remember, even if she doesn't.

Elizabeth

Thanks everyone for your replies and encouragement. It is just so hard (in so many ways) to be the only family. When you've got a church full of young children, we can kind of take our cues from each other and also get encouragement from the other parents of young children. We do have hope that another family will be coming and the new priest we're getting in August or September also has 3 young children, so I won't be alone forever.

Elizabeth

At St. George, one thing you know for sure, is your children will be there to go home with you. Basically, the whole parish takes care of the children. Glory to God!

That is really the way it should be at every parish.

The issue arises that many in the USA were raised in the western approach to how to conduct oneself in church. Sit in the pew, stand or kneel straight. Don't move about. Like going to church with my mom or her dad when growing up, if we turned around for a second we'd get reminded to face forward.
Then go visit say an Orthodox church with a high number of Russians, say all night vigil with the bishop with mirovanije. It'll seem like there is 15 things going on at once. The choir is singing, a deacon is incensing, the priest is coming in and out, people are going to confession, people are walking around praying in front of icons lighting candles, people are leaving and coming in, people are bowing, crossing themselves, the bishop comes out to the cathedra annoints people but other people are still coming in and lighting candles at the same time.
Confused? Don't be! So just remember in the Eastern tradition we don't have to subscribe to the, "oh my I forget to kneel, someone is going to look at me funny" mentality.
Point; don't be afraid to take those breaks during liturgy!

Oh yes...the 'perfect parents of the perfect children'.

I have met quite a few of those in my first parish and in my life, and I do not like them!! Actually, I wish that I could have told them: "if you have been so blessed by such perfect children, then count your blessings and thank God in humility and thanksgiving, and don't judge others whose children are obviously not perfect."

Lord have mercy on me, but isn't their arrogance and judgementalism a sin?!?

Alice