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3784 Members
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#326437 - 07/01/09 08:35 PM
Re: Can a Byzantine deacon serve for a Roman bishop at Mass?
[Re: griego catolico]
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Moderator
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Registered: 08/29/98
Posts: 3558
Loc: Washington, PA
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Yes.
Yes.
If bi-ritual, I suppose he would have his choice. If not, he would wear Byzantine vestments.
Fr. Deacon Lance
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#326439 - 07/01/09 10:33 PM
Re: Can a Byzantine deacon serve for a Roman bishop at Mass?
[Re: Fr. Deacon Lance]
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Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 2996
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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I was under the impression that a deacon really couldn't do anything unless he had the permission of his bishop.
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#326447 - 07/01/09 11:27 PM
Re: Can a Byzantine deacon serve for a Roman bishop at Mass?
[Re: StuartK]
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Moderator
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Registered: 08/29/98
Posts: 3558
Loc: Washington, PA
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Permission for occasional concelebration is presumed. If one were to serve at a parish of another ritual Church on a regular basis this would need to approved.
Fr. Deacon Lance
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#326465 - 07/02/09 09:09 AM
Re: Can a Byzantine deacon serve for a Roman bishop at Mass?
[Re: Fr. Deacon Lance]
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Member
Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 5151
Loc: somewhere betwixt the Alpha an...
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Yes.
Yes.
If bi-ritual, I suppose he would have his choice. If not, he would wear Byzantine vestments.
Fr. Deacon Lance I was told that deacons are by nature "omni-ritual," not that this dispenses one from asking permission of his bishop for more regular celebrations. Certainly, anything presidential in nature (Baptism, Marriage, Benedictions) would require SOME sort of explicit permission by one's bishop and the Latin bishop. Fr. Deacon Lance, I cannot recall...is there anything in Canon Law which addresses this issue? God bless, Fr. Deacon Daniel
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#326466 - 07/02/09 09:23 AM
Re: Can a Byzantine deacon serve for a Roman bishop at Mass?
[Re: ebed melech]
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Member
Registered: 11/03/01
Posts: 5860
Loc: Glasgow, Scotland
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Certainly, anything presidential in nature (Baptism, Marriage, Benedictions) would require SOME sort of explicit permission by one's bishop and the Latin bishop.
This strikes me as curious since in the East a Deacon cannot join together a couple in Marriage . Could a Deacon who has been ordained in the East perform such ceremonies/rites in the West which he can't do in his own Church ?
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#326469 - 07/02/09 10:12 AM
Re: Can a Byzantine deacon serve for a Roman bishop at Mass?
[Re: Our Lady's slave]
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Member
Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 6900
Loc: Kansas
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Could a Deacon who has been ordained in the East perform such ceremonies/rites in the West which he can't do in his own Church ? Only with the permission of his bishop and at the invitation of the Latin bishop under whom he has been invited to serve. Regarding the "omniritual" issue, we were instructed in our diaconal program by a canon lawyer that a Ukrainian Greek Catholic deacon can "assume" no service outside of that to the Ukrainian Greek Catholic bishop who has blessed his service and whose omophorion the deacon is under. Only his bishop can bless him for other service when that other service is requested. Bishop Basil (Losten) later reiterated that in another session. I do not consider myself "omniritual".
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#326504 - 07/02/09 11:25 PM
Re: Can a Byzantine deacon serve for a Roman bishop at Mass?
[Re: Diak]
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Member
Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 5151
Loc: somewhere betwixt the Alpha an...
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Could a Deacon who has been ordained in the East perform such ceremonies/rites in the West which he can't do in his own Church ? Only with the permission of his bishop and at the invitation of the Latin bishop under whom he has been invited to serve. Regarding the "omniritual" issue, we were instructed in our diaconal program by a canon lawyer that a Ukrainian Greek Catholic deacon can "assume" no service outside of that to the Ukrainian Greek Catholic bishop who has blessed his service and whose omophorion the deacon is under. Only his bishop can bless him for other service when that other service is requested. Bishop Basil (Losten) later reiterated that in another session. I do not consider myself "omniritual". So if I participate in a Catholic catechetical conference I must contact my bishop to request specific permission to serve at the Mass with the local Latin ordinary? Or when I participated in the regional Mass at the National Shrine with a group I was escorting at the March for Life, I needed to contact my bishop to serve? Seems a bit excessive...such permission is not even required of priests. I think that there is a difference between infrequent participation in an event and more regular activities at a Latin parish.
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#326570 - 07/03/09 10:38 PM
Re: Can a Byzantine deacon serve for a Roman bishop at Mass?
[Re: ebed melech]
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Member
Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 135
Loc: The South
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The USCCB have a diaconal handbook or publication on their website. If you dig deep enough in there it discusses bi-ritual deacons - and stated that even if an Eastern Catholic deacon were granted bi-ritual faculties, he is only to exercise those duties that are appropriate to his own rite... Meaning that even if you are bi-ritual, you won't be doing any marriages, baptisms, or funerals in the Latin church you serve. Here's the applicable quote from that document (p43): Bi-Ritual Permanent Deacons When a permanent deacon of the Eastern Catholic Churches is granted bi-ritual faculties to assist in the Roman Church, the theo- logical understanding of the sacraments and the order of the dia- conate in the Eastern Catholic Churches is to be respected. Practically, a deacon of the Eastern Catholic Churches is not to be allowed to solemnize marriages in the Roman Church. This is from: http://www.usccb.org/deacon/DeaconDirectory.pdf
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#326596 - 07/04/09 11:36 AM
Re: Can a Byzantine deacon serve for a Roman bishop at Mass?
[Re: Pavel Ivanovich]
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Registered: 08/29/98
Posts: 3558
Loc: Washington, PA
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The theology of marriage is differnt in the Byzantine and Latin Churches. In the Latin Church the copule is considered the minister of the sacrament, the priest/deacon is a witness for the Church and while they do impart a blessing it is not considered neccesary for validity. The Byzantine Church sees the priest as the minister of the sacrament and his blessing is necessary for validity. So if a Byzantine deacon presided over a Latin wedding ther would be no problem. If a Latin deacon presided over a Byzantine wedding it would be invalid.
Fr. Deacon Lance
_________________________
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
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#326597 - 07/04/09 11:42 AM
Re: Can a Byzantine deacon serve for a Roman bishop at Mass?
[Re: Diak]
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Member
Registered: 03/25/05
Posts: 1815
Loc: SF Bay Area, CA
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Regarding the "omniritual" issue, we were instructed in our diaconal program by a canon lawyer that a Ukrainian Greek Catholic deacon can "assume" no service outside of that to the Ukrainian Greek Catholic bishop who has blessed his service and whose omophorion the deacon is under. Only his bishop can bless him for other service when that other service is requested. Bishop Basil (Losten) later reiterated that in another session. I do not consider myself "omniritual". I don't even like the idea of "bi-ritual" clergy, but this "omni-ritual" idea is even worse in my opinion.
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#326609 - 07/04/09 03:47 PM
Re: Can a Byzantine deacon serve for a Roman bishop at Mass?
[Re: Fr. Deacon Lance]
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Member
Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 5151
Loc: somewhere betwixt the Alpha an...
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The theology of marriage is differnt in the Byzantine and Latin Churches. In the Latin Church the copule is considered the minister of the sacrament, the priest/deacon is a witness for the Church and while they do impart a blessing it is not considered neccesary for validity. The Byzantine Church sees the priest as the minister of the sacrament and his blessing is necessary for validity. So if a Byzantine deacon presided over a Latin wedding ther would be no problem. If a Latin deacon presided over a Byzantine wedding it would be invalid.
Fr. Deacon Lance Fr. Deacon Lance, But from the quote provide by Crule above, it appears that Byzantine deacons should not celebrate Latin weddings even if they are granted bi-ritual faculties. Personally, I agree with such a thing. As I said before, I think the Latin understanding of the role of the deacon is largely disfigured (minimalistic in the Mass and presidential in Baptisms, Weddings and Funerals). Outside of mission situations and Typica services, a deacon, while vested with some power of governance, is not by nature presidential in the exercise of his ministry. For my part, I have no plans to be involved in a Latin Catholic context in any way other then infrequent Catholic events like the ones mentioned above. It diffuses ones proper apostolic energies, not to mention the fact that one is ordained to serve one's bishop and his flock.
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