Site Links
ByzCath.org Home
Latest News
Liturgical Calendar
Lectionary
Newest Members
martin Baker, newyorkcatholic, zelda ondish, BothSides, MariyaNJ, Mariya Diawara, henrikhank, Fr. Ronald Comeau, J Parrish, Vladimir Teodor, mikev23, docnerves, JMJ1991, MichaelLofton, McClure010
4360 Registered Users
Who's Online
5 registered (Athanasius The L, sielos ilgesys, Otsheylnik, Luke Crawford, Irish Melkite), 147 Guests and 2 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Private Forums
The Byzantine Forum also hosts these private forums: The Deacon's Door (for deacons and deacon candidates and their wives) and the Orthodox Christian Studies Forum (for currently enrolled students only of the distance education programs offered by the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America). Contact an administrator for access at forum@byzcath.org.
Latest Photos
Our Lady of Fatima Russian Greek Catholic Church-- new location
Christ the Bridegroom visits Holy Resurrection
New photos of Fort Ross
Additiional clergy photos from Walk for Life West Coast
"Zions"
Forum Stats
4360 Members
26 Forums
29541 Topics
368871 Posts

Max Online: 1087 @ 07/16/07 01:09 PM
Topic Options
#327802 - 07/17/09 07:30 PM A curious depiction of the Melkite Church (and pbly of the others
Philippe Gebara Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/06
Posts: 799
Loc: Rio de Janeiro/ RJ - Brazil
I found this old book talking about Eastern Churches, of the famous Fr. A. Fortescue:

http://books.google.com.br/books?id=QYbgJI7ghroC&pg=PA223&dq=melkite&lr=

I found his depiction of the Melkite Church, the only one I read, curious.

Top
#327809 - 07/17/09 08:43 PM Re: A curious depiction of the Melkite Church (and pbly of the others [Re: Philippe Gebara]
StuartK Offline
Member

Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 5764
Loc: Falls Church, VA
First, Fortescue was no friend of Eastern Christianity, considering it to be decadent and backward. Second, his writing is hopelessly out of date regarding current practices and contemporary historical scholarship. On the other hand, it's a useful historical artifact, a window into how the Catholic Church viewed the Melkites, and certain idiosyncracies in the administration of the Eastern rites.

Top
#327811 - 07/17/09 08:53 PM Re: A curious depiction of the Melkite Church (and pbly of the others [Re: StuartK]
Fr. Deacon Lance Offline
Moderator
Member

Registered: 08/29/98
Posts: 3769
Loc: Washington, PA
Our own Dr. Anthony Dragani did his doctoral dissertation on Fortescue and takes a realistic but positive view of his work. His dissertation is availbale from Gorgias Press:
http://www.gorgiaspress.com/bookshop/p-5...n-churches.aspx
_________________________
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.

Top
#327815 - 07/17/09 09:17 PM Re: A curious depiction of the Melkite Church (and pbly of the ot [Re: Fr. Deacon Lance]
StuartK Offline
Member

Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 5764
Loc: Falls Church, VA
True, Anthony is very balanced in his assessment of Fortescue, but his criticisms remain trenchant. For example:

Quote:
However, the serious shortcomings of his work cannot be overlooked. Some of the more notable imperfections include his historical analyses of the schisms, which have largely been superseded by later scholarship as the readings of history have, in most cases, changed. Similarly, he was mistaken in his prediction that the office of patriarch would recede from prominence in the Orthodox world. He also failed to anticipate the ecumenical obstacle posed by the existence of the Eastern Catholic Churches. [p.211]


I
Quote:
n his treatment of the Eastern Christian Churches, Fortescue approach his subject largely from the vantage point of an apologist. Conscious of his place as part of England's Catholic minority, as well as being the son of a prominent convert, Fortescue was always insistent on explaining and defending his faith. This heavily colored his exposition of Eastern Christianity, and led to a lack of objectivity and an often polemical tone. These tendencies were manifest in his penchant for assigning the lion's share of responsibility for the schisms to the East and acquitting Rome of its portion of culpability.

Moreover, Fortescue was not very critical in most of his arguments, as he largely echoed what the Catholic Church was teaching in his lifetime. He unquestioningly defended the Catholic positions on such hot-button issues as the exercise of papal primacy and the addition of the Filioque to the creed, sometimes hastily dismissing non-Catholic objections. Rarely did he challenge what was the dominant Catholic opinion on any given topic. . . [pp.211-212]


That said, Anthony finds in Fortescue a useful foil in ecumenical discussions largely because he does express the issues in such stark terms.

Top
#327818 - 07/17/09 09:32 PM Re: A curious depiction of the Melkite Church (and pbly of the ot [Re: StuartK]
asianpilgrim Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/07
Posts: 1056
Loc: Philippines
Unfortunately, Ignatius Press has chosen to republish Fortescue's work on the Greek Fathers.

A terrible choice, if you ask me.

Top
#332219 - 09/11/09 11:12 PM Re: A curious depiction of the Melkite Church (and pbly of the ot [Re: asianpilgrim]
Philippe Gebara Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/06
Posts: 799
Loc: Rio de Janeiro/ RJ - Brazil
He can have those handicaps you said, but that he was a very talented artist I think there is no disagreement. See some pages of his diary, with a remark to one containing a Psalm in Arabic*:

http://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2009/09/diary-of-adrian-fortescue-images.html

*http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_oN5K_WcO5JM/SqfaoXz8e9I/AAAAAAAABL0/kmVORNfwlHo/s1600-h/Diary+16.jpg

Top



Moderator:  Alice, Father Deacon Ed, theophan 

The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. Contents copyright ©1996-2011. All rights reserved.