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Joined: Sep 2004
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Originally Posted by StuartK
I think perhaps we should also all pitch in (a form a private charity!) to buy Jean Francois a copy of Jonah Goldberg's Liberal Fascism.


Perhaps we should form a private charity to purchase StuartK a Bible so that he can better understand what it means to love thy neighboor.

I.F.

Last edited by Jean Francois; 07/22/09 08:55 PM.
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"Perhaps we should form a private charity to purchase StuartK a Bible so that he can better understand what it means to love thy neighboor."

JF, get off your high horse and actually listen to people.

StuartK is suggesting a good book that will broaden your perspective, you turn around and insult him by implying that he does not read the Holy Scriptures.





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Originally Posted by Jean Francois
God bless anyone who encourages women to keep their children !

However, legislation does not in fact reduce the number of abortions. Simply look a the statistic I posted and you will notice that in countries which have outlawed abortions, the women simply seek illegal abortions and the total number are about the same when compared with similar countries. If women can't get them legally, then they get them illegally.

I.F.

What J.F. posts is simply not true. Laws affect behavior. If you apply what he writes to any other topic (drunk driving, regular murder, thievery) then you must also say that all laws that restrict an activity thought to be immoral are worthless. it is true that laws will not stop every abortion or end every other type of crime. The evidence is clear that they greatly reduce what is restricted - including the murder of innocent children by abortion. J.F. just needs to look at the incredible sums of money spent by the pro-death forces to prevent any restrictions on abortion to see that laws do matter. They fear any restrictions on abortion since they know it will reduce abortions and reduce their income.

But J.F. appears to support the current legislation before Congress, which will ration and deny quality heath care to many Americans. Clearly his support for care for all is something he really does not support. I can again ask him to answer questions put to him. But he cannot for he knows he is spreading things that are false.

No poor person in America is denied health care - that's what Medicaid is for. The often touted 40 million without health care is broken down into roughly 3 or 4 groups (with some overlapping): the young who choose not to buy health insurance through their employers, those who make over $75,000 and choose not to purchase health insurance, illegal aliens and those between jobs who lost health care coverage. Most of this last group (under 10 million) are without health insurance for 6-8 months or less (until they get a new job).

We don't need socialized medicine that harms people. Socialism always destroys. Always. Canadian and U.K. (and elsewhere) health care are bankrupt and rationing gets worse every year (something J.F. wants for us!). Health care in America does need reform. Start with tort reform (but Congress if full of politician lawyers who make a killing on chasing ambulances so it is difficult). Then get the government out of the health care business entirely. Since we already guarantee health care to both seniors and the poor move them from having the government running Medicare (feds) / Medicaid (states) to simply providing a combination of tax deductions and subsidies for people to buy individual plans on the open market. Eventually consumer choice would follow for those who obtain their health care from their employer (i.e., people should purchase individual plans that offer portability rather then expect it from their employer).

We need to thank J.F. for posting. His posts are so obviously false they are incredibly easy to debunk. I have had a few thank you PMs telling me that people are calling their congressmen and senators to tell the them to reject socialized health care.

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Quote
Perhaps we should form a private charity to purchase StuartK a Bible so that he can better understand what it means to love thy neighboor.


It's only because I love you that I dare speak the truth to you. Otherwise, you wouldn't be worth the bother.

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Originally Posted by Jean Francois
Originally Posted by StuartK
I think perhaps we should also all pitch in (a form a private charity!) to buy Jean Francois a copy of Jonah Goldberg's Liberal Fascism.

Perhaps we should form a private charity to purchase StuartK a Bible so that he can better understand what it means to love thy neighboor.

I.F.

Obnoxious, but I'll let it stand. There is an old truth. When someone like J.F. insists on making a fool of himself one should get out of the way and let him. Loving thy neighbor does not mean embracing socialism and rationing. J.F. is foolish to have bought into that lie. We probably cannot educate him - he does not care about truth. But we can allow him to show the foolishness of his position.

Providing for the needy in America does not require socialized heath care.

I will second Stuart: Speak the truth in love.

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J. F. - So you are willing to fund abortions - that's killing babies, by the way, who are made in the image of God (like you are!), who are the weakest (like you were once!) and most vulnerable members of society (like you were once!) - through taxation so everyone can have health care? So, do I understand you correctly? Are you saying, then, you are willing to be complicit in this great evil? Also, you did not answer my questions: "Aren't you glad your parents didn't abort you?" (yes or no) "How many of those babies that are aborted would like to have a stab (no pun intended) at life - like you." (in the USA, that would be about 50 million by now) And by the way JF, I do think; that's why I am unreservedly, uncategorically, and unashamedly prolife. But to boast that the Canadian health care system is better than the US system because you kill fewer babies is like saying Hitler is a better person than Mao because he killed fewer people. Or like saying Pol Pot is a better person than Hitler because he killed fewer people than Hitler. Any political institution that supports through laws and/or tax dollars the killing of innocent people is out of the will of God and near to being judged by a just God. If a nation can't make the right decision about protecting babies, then it won't make right decisions about much of anything else. Im' sure you'll agree the founders of the USA committed a grave sin when they allowed slavery to exist as a compromise so as to bring in the Southern states into the union. And as a country the USA also suffered greatly for that gross evil through the Civil War (in which nearly 500,000 - 600,000 Americans died) and the accompanying racial divide that exists even to this day. No race or individual should suffer enslavement; and no baby should suffer abortion - which is a form of slavery. Remember, JF, the words of our Saviour: "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." Do you not agree with our Saviour's words?

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It only gets worse. Now the same people who rationed health care in Canada are trying to bring in euthanasia as part of health care. Murdering sick people and the elderly is surely one way of controlling health care costs!

Bishops encourage Catholics to engage in battle against euthanasia

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Originally Posted by Jean Francois
It's ironic that in countries such as Canada, the availability of universal healthcare is considered to be an expression of Christian love for your fellow citizen, whereas within the USA it appears that the exact opposite seems to be true. It would be interesting to have more non US citizens post their opinion on the matter, including perhaps non US clergy.

I.F.


Jean Francois:

Please allow me to make a suggestion. Please consider that not all who oppose universal healthcare do so because they are selfish or indifferent to the needs of the poor.

From your posts, I get the impression that you share some of my own beliefs about the role of government in society. I'm basically a New Deal-Great Society liberal. There was a time when I tended to stereotype those who oppose the sort of government intervention I support as being insensitive, indifferent, or selfish. While it certainly is the case that such people exist (and they come from political ideologies that run the spectrum), I have learned that there are indeed many conservatives who are every bit as concerned about the poor as I am. So the dispute tends to be over the means, not the end.

In Christ,

Ryan

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