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African Catholic Church Growing Rapidly #32830
04/15/05 05:51 PM
04/15/05 05:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 233
Ohio
RandyFermo Offline OP
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RandyFermo  Offline OP
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Aloha Ohana,

Ok....do you think the church is ready for African Pope? I just wondering.... I know its by the Holy Spirit.... but it is really thought provoking.....dont you think?


African Catholic Church Growing Rapidly
Fri Apr 15, 4:34 AM ET Europe - AP

By TERRY LEONARD, Associated Press Writer
SOWETO, South Africa - Mass is so crowded at St. Joseph's Roman Catholic Church that the parishioners spill out into the courtyard, where they huddle close to the doors to hear and be heard.
READ MORE:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm.../20050415/ap_on_re_eu/pope_african_flock

Is the World Ready for a Black Pope?
Fri Apr 15, 8:48 AM ET World - Reuters


By Philip Pullella

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - On crosses and paintings in Catholic Churches throughout Africa, Jesus is depicted as black -- a suffering man on a suffering continent.



Now some say the time may have come for cardinals to consider a black African for the papacy when they enter the conclave on Monday.


"I think that an African pope would show the world that the Catholic Church is no longer a white or European institution but a truly universal Church that includes all races, all cultures and all nationalities," said Father Tom Reese, a leading Church historian.

Read More:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...mp;u=/nm/20050415/wl_nm/pope_africa_dc_1

Re: African Catholic Church Growing Rapidly #32831
04/15/05 05:56 PM
04/15/05 05:56 PM
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incognitus Offline
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incognitus  Offline
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African Catholic Church? What does this phrase mean? I've heard of the African Orthodox Church. But "African Catholic Church" - well, it could refer to the Coptic Catholic Patriarchate of Alexandria, or it could refer to the Ethiopian Catholic Church. There was an attempt to promote a "Zairean Rite"; is it still going? Come to think of it, there was also what began as a break-away parish for African-American Catholics in Washington, D.C. - which seems superfluous, since Washington, D.C. has a perfectly good Ethiopian Catholic parish. I've no idea whether the breakaway parish is still going.

Incognitus

Incognitus

Re: African Catholic Church Growing Rapidly #32832
04/15/05 06:07 PM
04/15/05 06:07 PM
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Posts: 233
Ohio
RandyFermo Offline OP
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RandyFermo  Offline OP
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no....it is RC just call it African or Black ...it wont make any different. read the article again. it is just an ethnic identification.... :rolleyes:

Re: African Catholic Church Growing Rapidly #32833
04/15/05 09:19 PM
04/15/05 09:19 PM
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Chicago
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Amadeus Offline
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Somewhere in the 2 articles, the writers correctly identified the Catholic Church as the "(Catholic) Church in Africa."

The banner on the first article was just a lead and not an indentifier.

At any rate, I think the 2001 Annuario Pontificio listed the number of Catholics in the African continent at ~120 million for the year ended at December 31, 2000. This means that in 4 years more than 20 million Africans joined the ranks of the Catholic Church.

Yes, this development is heartwarming to us but to the consternation of Islam, whose Imams and Mullahs in Africa voiced grave concern during interviews with "al Jazeera" Arab TV recently, the script of which found their way in Internet fora.

Amado

Re: African Catholic Church Growing Rapidly #32834
04/15/05 11:10 PM
04/15/05 11:10 PM
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Southwestern Pennsylvania
Mr. Clean Offline
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Incognitus -

The "breakaway" church that you may be referring to was called the Imani Temple, if memory serves.

Fr. George Stallings, who was excommunicated by Cardinal Hickey of the Archdiocese of Washington, started this breakaway group.

This is one of the most recent articles I could find about him.
http://www.rickross.com/reference/unif/unif123.html

Re: African Catholic Church Growing Rapidly #32835
04/15/05 11:23 PM
04/15/05 11:23 PM
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Irondale,AL
Pani Rose Offline
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I haven't heard anything about him in a long time. Interesting and sad. Thanks, Pani Rose

Re: African Catholic Church Growing Rapidly #32836
04/16/05 02:06 AM
04/16/05 02:06 AM
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incognitus Offline
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George Stallings is indeed the priest I was thinking of, although I had forgotten his name. But involvement with the Moonies? Holy Saints, deliver us! These people are afflicted with severe pseudo-religious delusions - what the Philokalia (in the Church-Slavonic edition) calls prelest'.

Meanwhile, to return to the point I was making - the Roman liturgical tradition is not indigenous to Africa. I'm happy to report that the Coptic Orthodox Church and the Ethiopian Orthodox Church are both doing admirable work in sub-Saharan Africa. One would very much like to see the Coptic Catholic Church and the Ethiopian Catholic Church also hard at work building up new missions among those who have yet to know Christ and His Church.

To add insult to injury, a significant proportion of the "Latin" missionaries in sub-Saharan Africa are actually Syro-Malabarese clergy and religious.

Incognitus

Re: African Catholic Church Growing Rapidly #32837
04/16/05 03:10 AM
04/16/05 03:10 AM
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California
Manuel Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by incognitus:

Meanwhile, to return to the point I was making - the Roman liturgical tradition is not indigenous to Africa...
Forgive me Incognitus but aren't Saints Augustine, Monica, Felicity, Perpetua and others from North Africa? It may have died out during the first millenium but do you think its fair to say that Latin Christianity was indigenous to that part of Africa?

Manuel, who would also love to see the Coptic Catholic and Ethiopian Catholic Churches grow.

Re: African Catholic Church Growing Rapidly #32838
04/16/05 10:21 AM
04/16/05 10:21 AM
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Georgia
Logos - Alexis Offline
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I think that if it is only the Roman Catholic Church sui iuris that is doing the missionary work in sub-Saharan Africa, then it is the only sui iuris Church that deserves to win converts. I'd love to see the Ethiopian and Coptic Catholic Churches set up missions in sub-Sahara, but you've got to work to earn.

Quote
"I think that an African pope would show the world that the Catholic Church is no longer a white or European institution but a truly universal Church that includes all races, all cultures and all nationalities," said Father Tom Reese, a leading Church historian.
I think this comment by Fr. Reese is highly scandalous and very offensive. He clearly states that he thinks that being "a white or European institution" and "truly universal" are mutually exclusive. Universality is part of the nature of the Church, whether it encompasses someone from every ethnicity or whether it includes a very few thousand ethnic Jews and Gentile converts like it did in the beginning. It's scandalous and irresponsible for a priest of the Church to assert that the Church isn't truly universal; and if he means to use the word "universal" in any other way, one would think he should clarify.

Logos Teen

Re: African Catholic Church Growing Rapidly #32839
04/16/05 11:17 AM
04/16/05 11:17 AM
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Yuhannon Offline
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Shlomo Teen,
The only reason that the Roman Church is the one doing missionary work in Africa, is because Eastern Catholics are FORBIDDEN to do so outside of their "territory". I know of a Maronite Priest that is a missionary in Taiwan, and he can not preach about the Maronite Church only the Roman one.

I will not go into the weakness of our Eastern Catholic Eparchs at this time, but this really enrages me.

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

Re: African Catholic Church Growing Rapidly #32840
04/16/05 11:18 AM
04/16/05 11:18 AM
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McKees Rocks, PA
Fr. Thomas Offline
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A little reality check is needed here, and maybe a few need to do some reading on the history of the church in Africa.

The *Roman* Catholic church is not indiginous to African Christian history, this should be perfectly clear. I would suspect that their missionary efforts started quite late there.

And of course, the Coptic and Orthodox churches are quite large in both Northern and sub-Saharan Africa. Most of the missionary work that the OCMC does is in these regions.

Priest Thomas

Re: African Catholic Church Growing Rapidly #32841
04/16/05 01:21 PM
04/16/05 01:21 PM
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incognitus Offline
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One of our correspondents (and I apologize for failing to name him, but I've no way of flipping the screen back to get his name) asks me whether I seriously wish to deny that "Latin Christianity was indigenous to North-West Africa".

I have no special reason to deny that - but it is a very long jump to use this as a basis to assert that the Roman liturgical tradition is indigenous there. At the time of Saint Augustine, for example, that liturgical tradition was in its infancy.

Moreover, the Latin Church in North Africa died out completely. This is no cause for joy, but we should remember that the Coptic Church and the Ethiopian Church have existed continuously since the time of their founding. The Church of Alexandria was founded by Saint Mark, and the Church of Ethiopia was founded by Saint Frumentius, on assignment from Saint Athanasius.

The point which has already been made by two more of our correspondents - that these two indigenous Churches (not to mention the Greek-Catholics) are simply not permitted to expand is only too true, even though it directly violates the decision of Vatican II.

The situation mentioned on Taiwan is particularly outrageous - show me the canons which declare that Taiwan is part of the territory of the Patriarch of the West! Do I hear the phrase "praestantia romani ritus"?

Incognitus

Re: African Catholic Church Growing Rapidly #32842
04/16/05 03:34 PM
04/16/05 03:34 PM
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Amadeus Offline
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So, if the Roman Catholic Church is growing rapidly in the African continent, do Eastern Catholics (and Orthodox) begrudge the Latin Church in spearheading this new evangelization and showing measurable success?

In this part of the world, I thought the main "protaganist" was Islam?

Various protestant sects are in the footsteps of the Catholic Church, why can't the Eastern Churches do the same? Yes, the EOC and ECC are the indigenous Christians in sub-Saharan Africa but neither has expanded beyond their traditional boundaries while the Copts in Egypt are slowly being engulfed in a surging wave of Mohammedans.

Do you want the Roman Catholic Church just to stand still and let the opportunity goes by?

Why doesn't every Eastern Church, Catholic and Orthodox, join in the fray? You are "prohibited" by the Latin Church from doing so? I don't think so. Admit that you don't have the sufficient means and the dedicated people to do the job.

Amado

Re: African Catholic Church Growing Rapidly #32843
04/16/05 03:53 PM
04/16/05 03:53 PM
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As to Taiwan, the Roman Catholic Church started its evangelization in the 17th century, but failed, with missionaries based in the Philippines to the South, which was evangelized a century earlier.

Another attempt in 1895 produced 1300 converts. Mission efforts were hampered by the Japanese, who occupied the island after the Sino-Japanese war.

Greater progress was made among Chinese who emigrated to the island after the Communist takeover of the mainland in 1949. The hierarchy was established in 1952. Taiwanese Catholics are seen as a bridge to the Catholics in China.

Despite these concerted efforts, there are only about 300,000 Catholics in Taiwan today, out of the 23 mllion inhabitants.

All Catholics are welcome to help in the evangelization work. I don't think the Maronites are being prohibited by the Latin hierarchy in the island. What the hierarchy must be requiring is coordination.

Amado

P.S. Did you know that there are more Taiwanese protestants than Catholics?

Re: African Catholic Church Growing Rapidly #32844
04/16/05 06:34 PM
04/16/05 06:34 PM
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Yuhannon Offline
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Shlomo Amadeus,

Actually ALL Eastern Catholic Churches are forbidden from evangelizing outside of their "territories."

Here in the States it is a special case, but still and all we are mostly forbidden to evangelize.

Further, if we are going to lay claim to lands, then everything upto China should be within the Antiochene sphere since we had Churches there up until the 12th Century.

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

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