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This is from the UGCC website concerning St. Sofia's Cathedral in Kyiv which is around 1,000 years old.........
____________________________________

Cardinal Lubomyr Husar, head of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church (UGCC), reiterated the official position of the UGCC on the restitution of the Cathedral of St. Sophia in Kyiv. The statement was released on 17 April 2002.

After part 137 of the decree of the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine “On Conditions of Restitution of Religious Buildings and Monuments of Architecture to Religious Organizations” was publicized on 14 February 2002, fierce debates arose between the Orthodox churches in Ukraine over the Cathedral of St. Sophia in Kyiv. The position of the UGCC on the issue was declared at the Metropolitan’s Synod on 3-4 January 2002 and stated in a letter to Ukrainian President Leonid Kuchma sent on 11 January 2002. Cardinal Husar, however, found it necessary to reiterate the UGCC’s position, as it is often misinterpreted or distorted by the mass media.

An excerpt from the statement follows:

“The Cathedral of St. Sophia is a spiritual symbol of unity and a sacred place of special importance for the whole Ukrainian nation. It should be transferred to the patriarch of the Ukrainian Church when all Orthodox and Catholic faithful, whose roots reach back to the baptism of Volodymyr, return to the original unity of the very beginnings of Christianity in Ukraine, and when they have a single patriarch. Therefore, the bishops of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church believe that this sanctuary should remain the property of the Ukrainian government until that blessed moment.

“Taking into consideration the present circumstances, under which the Kyivan Church is divided into four denominations: the UOC [Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Moscow Patriarchate], the UGCC [Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church], the UOC-KP [Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Kyivan Patriarchate] and the UAOC [Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church], the hierarchy of the UGCC sees two possible ways of solving the problem of returning St. Sophia’s Cathedral:
* 1. Allow the Cathedral of St. Sophia to be used for religious services by the above mentioned denominations … on an equal basis. It should, however, be pointed out that such use will every time call forth a significant resonance in society.
* 2. Refuse to transfer the Cathedral of St. Sophia in Kyiv to any of the denominations for permanent or temporary use for the time being, as long the ecclesial unity of the time of Volodymyr’s baptism has not been renewed in Ukraine.”


Source: press service of the UGCC
www.ugcc.org.ua/eng/

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Please, how has the Cathedral been used in the past decade?
Thank you.

[ 04-26-2002: Message edited by: durak ]

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Originally posted by durak:
Please, how has the Cathedral been used in the past decade?
Thank you.

[ 04-26-2002: Message edited by: durak ]


It has been used for Divine Liturgy by the UOC/MP and I believe the UOC/KP but not by the UGCC nor UAOC. They also record Sacral music there.

May I state, that although some people are critical to Papa Lybomyr for not being as assertive as Patriarch Josef with regards to the question of "patriarch" and "jurisdiction" (and I do understand this complaint), I have never disagreed with one public statement the man has made. He shows real leadership with his written statements.

To name a few:
* His condemnation of the vandalism on the Kyivan synogogue.
* His honesty and truth with regards to ecumenism between Orthodoxy and Catholicism.

We are blessed to have such a leader, who in my humble opinion, places truth before all else.

ALity

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The Cathedral is used liturgically for the most important of functions. It was used by the Ukrainian Autocepholous Orthodox Church for the instillation of Patriarch Mstyslav I (he was Metropolitan in the States) as Patriarch of All Rus'- Ukraine in August of 1990. We actually have tape of the Liturgy and to see a Divine Liturgy served from there is impressive. It is a musuem now and we went to it last July. It is quite an awesome expierence especially if you know the history.

What Patriarch Lubomyr, UGCC, is proposing it to be used at the main seat of the one Kyivan Orthodox Church but in Cmmunion with Rome, ALity help me out here if I am wrong.
-ukrainiancatholic

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[* 1. Allow the Cathedral of St. Sophia to be used for religious services by the above mentioned denominations … on an equal basis. It should, however, be pointed out that such use will every time call forth a significant resonance in society.
* 2. Refuse to transfer the Cathedral of St. Sophia in Kyiv to any of the denominations for permanent or temporary use for the time being, as long the ecclesial unity of the time of Volodymyr’s baptism has not been renewed in Ukraine.” ]

Guess I better vent before Holy Week starts. So the head of the Ukrainian Catholic Church would rather see the most Holy and MOTHER CHURCH OF UKRAINIAN ORTHODOXY remain a museum until he can either share it with the Orthodox (including two non canonical Orthodox jurisdictions) or that time when unity is achieved between Orthodox Catholics and Roman Catholics (which really means when the Ukrainian Orthodox join the Unia)!
Maybe the Orthodox Bishop who oversees the Orthodox parishes in Italy should petition the Italian government to grant us permission to share St Peters with both Roman Catholics, non canonical Catholics like those under the French Bishop who have been separated from canonical Roman Catholicism. And if that cannot be achieved turn it into a museum until that time when the Roman Catholic Church returns to the Orthodox Catholic Church.
Whats next. The Kievian caves?

OrthoMan

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Quote
Originally posted by OrthoMan:
[* 1. Allow the Cathedral of St. Sophia to be used for religious services by the above mentioned denominations … on an equal basis. It should, however, be pointed out that such use will every time call forth a significant resonance in society.
* 2. Refuse to transfer the Cathedral of St. Sophia in Kyiv to any of the denominations for permanent or temporary use for the time being, as long the ecclesial unity of the time of Volodymyr's baptism has not been renewed in Ukraine.” ]

Guess I better vent before Holy Week starts. So the head of the Ukrainian Catholic Church would rather see the most Holy and MOTHER CHURCH OF UKRAINIAN ORTHODOXY remain a museum until he can either share it with the Orthodox (including two non canonical Orthodox jurisdictions) or that time when unity is achieved between Orthodox Catholics and Roman Catholics (which really means when the Ukrainian Orthodox join the Unia)!
[edit: ALity]
Maybe the Orthodox Bishop who oversees the Orthodox parishes in Italy should petition the Italian government to grant us permission to share St Peters with both Roman Catholics, non canonical Catholics like those under the French Bishop who have been separated from canonical Roman Catholicism. And if that cannot be achieved turn it into a museum until that time when the Roman Catholic Church returns to the Orthodox Catholic Church.
Whats next. The Kievian caves?

OrthoMan


I guess since I already celebrated Pascha, I can vent back . . . wink

The Cathedral of Saint Sophia is a Mother Church for both Ukrainian Orthodox and Greek Catholic.

Historical fact: The Hierarchy of the Ruthenian Orthodox Church made a decision that was very bold, effected the rest of the Orthodox and Catholic world, and perhaps could be seen as an innovative step in solving many problems facing their Church and faithful: They REUNITED with the Roman Church. St. Sophia is equally the UGCC's as much as it is the Autocephalus and Kyivan Patriarchate's Church. However, those churches trace their historical genesis to the formation of a "shadow metropolitan" of Kyiv established by Constantinople to stop the Unia.
The legitimate metropolitan of Kyiv, and I have read this in Ukrainian press in Kyiv, is the current head of the UGCC. Obviously, this is not a universal opinion, but with the freeeom of Ukraine and the reemergence of Ukrainian Historical shcolarship, such theory's are coming forth.

St. Sophia can only be considered rightfully the property of the Russian Orthodox Church if you support Muscovy's(Russia) colonial subjugation of Ukraine and the Tsar's permission to have the Moscow Patriarchate consume and liquidate the Church which gave birth to her: Kyiv and the Rus'-Ukrainian faithful.

I think that Patriarch Lybomyr is not trying to act subversively, and "steal sheep". In fact, the UGCC may reunite with the Orthodox. Or maybe they will reunite with the Kyivan Orthodox Patriarch and let Constantinople and Rome continue to fight while their "northern sister" lives in hamrony and unity.

I think that I have gotten a bit side tracked . . . Orthoman, some of your staements I respectfully disagree with. Historically, St. Sophia has many potential "rightful owners" and the Ukrainian Government needs to either allow all traditional Ukrainian Churches equal access, which could be a disaster, especially with the alien Russian Orthodox Church, or it needs to be her steward until the Ukrainian Church works something out. And that solution is not necessarilly Ukrainian Orthodox joining the Unia. But I might add, since I am so long winded wink , that if Constantinople and the rest of world Orthodoxy will be so blind as to disregard Imperialist Russia's oppression of the Ukrainian Church and not grant canonical autocephalous and patriarchal status to the largest continental european Orthodox nation, then I would not be suprised at all to see a Ukrainian Catholic nation, with a Patriarch and sacramental communion with Rome. eek


Have a blessed Lent
and
Christ is Risen
(take your pick)

ALity

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OrthoMan,

The Society of St. Pius X ("those under the French Bishop" to whom you refer) has little interest in taking over St. Peter's Basilica. After all, they don't believe that they are in schism from the Pope.

St. Sophia's in Kyiv, on the other hand, is not the center of a worldwide communion but is the national symbol of Ukrainian Christianity.
And none of these other organizations/Churches you mention is a "national Church" whereas the UOC-MP, UOC-KP, and UGCC certainly present themselves as such. So when in Ukraine...

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Quote
Originally posted by ukrainiancatholic:


What Patriarch Lubomyr, UGCC, is proposing it to be used at the main seat of the one Kyivan Orthodox Church but in Cmmunion with Rome, ALity help me out here if I am wrong.
-ukrainiancatholic


I don't know about that . . . ukrainiancatholic, I think that the goal is to have a united Ukrainian Church, period! One church in Ukraine to serve the nation. Perhaps it will follow the model of the Melkite Catholic and Antiochian Orthodox reunification. Although, I still am unclear as to what that entails as the details are not readily available, or I have not read them. Any word from Melkites, or Antiochian's on this forum would be welcome.

ALity

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OrthoMan,
Even though its a museum, there were people who were praying, I especially one babushka who was praying in front of each icon on the iconostasis.

At least its a religious mesuem not an anti-religious museum that was so common in places of Soviet state art.
-ukrainiancatholic

"If it be God's will and the desire of the Ukrainian people, place my coffin in the catacombs of the renewed Cathedral of St. Sofia. In the catacombs of the Kyivan prison I was tortured for many years when I lived; in the catacombsof the renewed Cathedral of St. Sofia in Kyiv I would rest, being dead according to the flesh!"
-Testament of Patriarch Joesph I

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[St. Sophia's in Kyiv, on the other hand, is not the center of a worldwide communion but is the national symbol of Ukrainian Christianity.]

Which is based neither on Roman Catholicism nor Uniatism but Orthodox theology, spirituality, prayer, and ethos.

[Even though its a museum, there were people who were praying, I especially one babushka who was praying in front of each icon on the iconostasis.]

I was very well aware of that fact when I visited this Holy Orthodox shrine in 1988. At which time, while we were on the balconey we were asked by our Ukrainian tour guides to sing in both slavonic and english -

'Oh Lord save thy people and bless thine inheritance. Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries. And by virtue of they Cross perserve thy habitation'.

Since I will be going to Confession tonight after Vespers I will be signing off the Forum for the duration of Holy Week. To those who are still in the Lenten period, prepare yourselves for the greatest of Christian Feasts by prayer and fasting. To those who have already Feasted continue on your journey to prepare yourself to one day meet he who rose from the dead.

OrthoMan

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OrthoMan, are you Ukrainian Orthodox?

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Dear Friends,

Major Archbishop Lubomyr Husar's statement (he does not call himself "Patriarch") that St Sophia should remain in the keeping of the Ukrainian government shows his heart is in the right place, even if his head isn't.

He wants to see a united Kyivan Church that is in communion with Rome. He has every right to have that vision.

And it is true that St Sophia is also part of the patrimony of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, since it was the Orthodox Metropolitan of Kyiv at the time who signed the Union of Brest-Litovsk.

But St Sophia belongs to the Orthodox, period.

I would argue that it belongs to the Kyivan Patriarchate and Autocephalous Church who will eventually unite with the KP.

But that is an issue for the Ukrainian Orthodox to work out and then for Orthodoxy to accept.

Eastern Catholics have no more claim to St Sophia than we do to the Pochayiv Lavra or other Orthodox Shrines. We should all learn from the example of St Andrew Sheptytsky who left the Orthodox alone, especially the Pochayiv Lavra after years of being in the control of the Basilians.

Certainly, Eastern Catholics could/should have the right to serve in the Cathedral, as should the Moscow Patriarchate and others too.

But I think we do a disservice to Ukrainian Orthodox and Orthodox in general by promoting the continued possession of such Shrines by people (ie. the Ukrainian government) who, generally, have no interest in religion one way or another, except in terms of its political impact and use.

If Major Archbishop Lubomyr Husar doesn't recognize the canonicty of the KP or has some other issue, then he should at least remain silent on the matter, as Sheptytsky did on the issue of the Pochayiv Lavra's return to Eastern Catholic control.

Recently, our former Apostolic Administrator wanted to make an ecumenical gesture and gave back the Okhtyrska Icon of the Mother of God to Kharkiv - and that is where it is today, in a museum.

To promote the continuation of keeping museums in this way is unworthy of any Ukrainian Catholic.

In addition, there is absolutely NO NEED to include the Russian (Kiev) in brackets after the now official KYIV as the capital of Ukraine.

I have yet to see KYIV following KIEV anywhere.

So I would ask UC to consider removing it - please.

As for our leader, fortunately, being a Patriarch doesn't make one infallible. smile

Alex

[ 05-01-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

[ 05-01-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

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Alex,
The only reason I put the Russian Kiev down because that is how most people know it as, and if I were to have just put Kyiv, most people probably wouldn't know what I was talking about. I am probably the most nationalistic of Ukies on this forum so normaly I would put ANYTHING Russian down but I did only as a refernce for others. There some very russified Ukrainians on this forum and they use Russian terms and support Russian causes and I get more upset about that. I don't know how to take off the Kiev in () but if I did, I glady would take it off. It is Russian as you said and I and usually the last one top use anything or support anything Russian.
-ukrainiancatholic

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Dear UC,

As I see I've struck a guilty nerve, you are most certainly Ukrainian!!

No problem, but I think most know what we are talking about when we say "Kyiv."

It is like the British tour bus who had flags denoting languages spoken by their tour guides.

They had the British Union Jack for "English."

When I asked them about the Canadians and Americans, the answer was, "They know what the English flag looks like . . ."

Slava Ukrayini!

Alex

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Alex wrote: "Slava Ukrayini!"

Alex,
You forgot Slava Bandurystovi biggrin Remember that there is a Bandura painted in one of the 1,000 year old frescos in St. Sofia's Cathedral.

Z kobzarskym pryvitom,
-ukrainiancatholic

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